TPS Connector and Injector connectors off mk1a please

[jimi]

Jimi, Do you have enough information to check which TPS is partnered with which ECU ?

Possibly, I'll investigate and get back to you tonight ( I'm nightshift )

[Evo4Jon]

And also which part number for injectors please.
I have found that the rom package in the 070 is the same as the rom package in the 140ecu but with a different set of maps

I have an willem eeprom reader somewhere so I will try and set it up to take a look at the code.
This is a Supra one: http://svn.assembla.com/svn/7M_TCCS/D151801-3920/

Addition (Edit)
Just been researching this and it's somewhat out of my league... However, I think it might be interesting to understand the differences between the 3 ecu's and why Toyota did what they did. I also think that this research will give insight into what conditions must be met before the likes of Greddy piggy back ECU's can assist the factory ECU.

It might be that it works only on Mk1a setup due to higher injector impedance or maybe the mk1b with a resistor to increase the overall resistance or maybe a MK1a ecu with Mk1b injectors TPS and resistor pack to prevent the ECU from drawing too much current.

I have a suspicion that Toyota went from Saturated injectors to peak/hold type.... I think the Greddy would work best on saturation type. If someone can dig out a few square mk1a injector connectors and alternative mk1a TPS connector, I can then try all of these scenarios out, but I need to know what TPS belongs to which injectors and which ECU so that the standard map is right in the first instance. I have already bought a test solenoid resistor which I can mod to add resistance for emanage or short out if I install Mk1a injectors.

Any help anyone can bring to this would be greatly appreciated and it could serve many people if I can suss the best combination and then publish my findings

[jimi]

I used various UK VIN numbers that I have and cross checked using the ToyoDIY online EPC and a copy of the EPC I have on my PC, here's what I got. Obviously I can't guarantee this is 100% correct, having said that the 2 EPC's agree with each other.


ONLINE EPC (Toyodiy)

Using a UK 1985 VIN number:
ECU = 89661-17030
TPS = 89452-28010

Using a UK 1986/7 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17070
TPS = 89452-20070

Using a UK 1988 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12040 (DENSO) & 89452-12050 (AISIN)

Using a UK 1989 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12050 (AISIN)



OFFLINE EPC (on my PC)

Using a UK 1985 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17030
TPS = 89452-28010

Using a UK 1986/7 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17070
TPS = 89452-20070

Using a UK 1988 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12040 & 89452-12050

Using a UK 1989 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12050

I'll check the injector numbers and add them to the list when I get a chance.

[jimi]

Revised list with injectors plus I've added 1984, 1986 & 1987 VIN's


ONLINE EPC (Toyodiy)

Using a UK 1984 VIN number:
ECU = 89661-17030
TPS = 89452-28010
Injector = 23209-16010

Using a UK 1985 VIN number:
ECU = 89661-17030
TPS = 89452-28010
Injector = 23209-16010

Using a UK 1986 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17070
TPS = 89452-20070
Injector = 23209-16010

Using a UK 1987 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17070
TPS = 89452-20070
Injector = 23209-16090

Using a UK 1988 VIN number:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12040 (DENSO) & 89452-12050 (AISIN)
Injector = 23209-16070

Using a UK 1989 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12050 (AISIN)
Injector = 23209-16070


OFFLINE EPC (on my PC)

Using a UK 1984 VIN number: (JT1C0AW1100020000)
ECU = 89661-17030
TPS = 89452-28010
Injector = 23209-16010

Using a UK 1985 VIN number: (JT1C0AW1100044082)
ECU = 89661-17030
TPS = 89452-28010
Injector = 23209-16010

Using a UK 1986 VIN: (JT1C0AW1100094705)
ECU = 89661-17070
TPS = 89452-20070
Injector = 23209-16010

Using a UK 1987 VIN: (JT1C0AW110124102)
ECU = 89661-17070
TPS = 89452-20070
Injector = 23209-16090

Using a 1988 VIN number:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12040 & 89452-12050
Injector = 23209-16070

Using a UK 1989 VIN:
ECU = 89661-17140
TPS = 89452-12050
Injector = 23209-16070

Also another small piece of info I dug out of my records (IIRC it came from Jeremy Ross)

89661-17030 (small case size ECU) as fitted to the mk1a MR2
89661-17070 (regular case size) as per fitted to crossover mk1b
89661-17140 (regular case size) as per fitted to later mk1b

The mixture screw wiring is different on the later 1b ECU (89661-17140)
so if you tried running a 17070 ECU in it then the mixture screw wouldn't work because it's wired to the wrong ECU pin and the ECU would default the mixture setting to mid point.

I have tried briefly running all three ECU types in a later mk1b and they all 'work' in that the car could be driven but as Paul says there are differences that mean that it isn't wise to run the wrong ECU type.

[Evo4Jon]

Great info Thanks very much Jimi !

[Evo4Jon]

Just looking at the 1987 ECU ending 17070 and noticed that it doesn't have the pin called FPU - Fuel Pressure VSV. This controlls the vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator during certain running conditions.


ON the 17070 ECU instead of the FPU pin it has one called BF.

I have looked in all the pdf's I have here and can't see what the BF pin is ?

Any ideas ??

EDIT** I have found that BF is injector +B.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...n.jpg~original
I take it then that on the 1987 model the injectors get their voltage feed from the ECU whereas later models fed it from main relay ?

Is this correct ?

[Evo4Jon]

on the earlier cars does the vacuum line go straight into the throttle body / plenum without going through an electrically operated VSV valve ?

[jimi]

No, the 1a has a injector relay feeds the injectors via a 10A fuse. See page 5 relay B on the Electrical manual I linked to.
What manual is that picture from and are you sure it applies to the AW11 ? because I can't find it (FI 72) in any of the AW11 manuals I have.
Regarding the vacuum lines, on the intake plenum there's a black plastic insert with 2 vacuum ports, on the 1a one of them is connected to a hard line bolted to the side of of the intake plenum which goes to the MAP sensor and I'm pretty sure the other goes to the FPR. On a 1b there are two hard lines, one to the MAP sensor and the other to the FPR VSV

1a



1b

[Evo4Jon]

Thanks Jimmy. The ECU image above is of an aw11 w/o af meter on page 91 of the 4age engine pdf. The ae92 ECU is the only other ecu pin out I could find with reference to BR as there is nothing in any of the AW11 manuals and yet I have the ECU right here in my hand?

When I look at the circuit board on the Aw11 17070 ecu, the pin that showed a green/bl wire going to the VSV labelled FPR (on the 17140 ecu) shows the print BR instead and if I look at the circuit board, it tracks on the board back to the centre pin of a large power transistor. This transistor sits next to the one connected to #10 and #20. Looking at other circuit diagrams I can see that on the AE92 the wire that feeds to the injectors carrying 12v (bat voltage) splits off prior to the Solenoid Resistor and connects to the ECU through the BR terminal and the Transistor on the board must help to drive the injectors. The 1987 cars with red injectors are low ohms too like the pink ones - both of which run the resistor.

When I run my 17070 ECU I will need to feed the ECU BR pin with a +Bat voltage wire with the same earth as the injectors to avoid any potential differences which may cause a delay in timing (I think)

As for the info on the Fuel pressure reg vacuum pipes this is a great help in confirming what I thought happened on earlier cars. But what does the VSV on the vacuum line do ?? (I here you ask) well it does this:
Here is the story on the valve direct from Toyota:

"Fuel Pressure Control. The ECU sends signals to the fuel pressure regulator VSV to increase fuel pressure based on intake air temperature, coolant temperature and starting signal. By this system, engine restartability is maintained when the engine is hot. When restarting a hot engine, the ECU increases the fuel pressure above the normal level to reduce the fuel tendency to percolate. This helps restarting and also maintains the engine idle stability. The controlled fuel pressure is 21.2lb/in2."

"Operation. When the coolant temperature switch is ON (above 221*F) or higher, if the engine is cranked, the ECU turns on the VSV. As the VSV goes on, atmospheric air is introduced into the diagram [sic] chamber of the pressure regulator and the valve closes the passage. The fuel pressure becomes higher than the fuel pressure under normal driving condition by the amount of the intake manifold vacuum only. Even after the engine is started, the VSV remains on for several seconds."


SO IN SUMMARY:

In order to run the 17070 ECU on a later car which has a 17140 fitted the fuel press reg vacuum pipe needs connecting directly to plenum vacuum source and on the ECU, the FPU wire (Green/Bl line) needs cutting and a feed attaching to supply the ECU with voltage +12v from just before the resistor pack. You need to fit red injectors 23209-16090 and change the Throttle position sensor to 89452-20070. Then change the plug to a square connector

I was trying to find the exact spec of the Red Injectors part number 23209-16090 but it was tough going. Then I read on a 4age forum that there was an alternate Toyota part number of 23250-16090.

I have not concluded exact spec of the Red injector but I think (based on stuff I have read) that it may be 192cc / 2.3 Ohms and single output ?

Would you concur Jimi ?

[jimi]

Based on the drawings and what you have found inside the 17070 ECU your summary sounds correct, however until someone actually tries it there's no way to be 100% sure. I'll see if I can dig up any more info on the red injectors, I've seen a list of injectors and specs somewhere, just have to find it.