Mk1 2zz-ge conversion interest.

Ah a common misconception is that a bigger engine requires better brakes, this is not the case, speed is speed regardless of wether it is v8 powered or lawnmower engine powered, your brakes do not need to do any extra work to reduce the car from 100mph to zero if you have more BHP,in fact you could have a gazillion BHP and still use the same brakes.

It is the extra weight of a bigger engine that requires a brake upgrade, more weight= more inertia thrown forward during braking, more friction and more effort required by the brakes to bring the extra weight to a stop.

The 2zz is going to be about the same weight as a 4age give or take 10 kgs so no brake upgrade needed.A nice st165 celica twin pot conversion always works very well though regardless. :+:

i wondered that but just put it down to that if you've got more power you'll use it, and so will want to stop a bit quicker. the quicker you stop, the quicker you can speed off and do it all over again :mrgreen:

Our first 2zz mk1 is now booked in for around 5-6 weeks time, should be a stonking conversion that one! I will do a build thread here to cover it when it happens. :+:

RE The Elise comments; I had a brand new Exige II and although it drove fab, it fell to bits (thankfully within the Warranty period) - give me a classic MR2 MK1 anyday :D

I'd definitely like to have this conversion at some point soon. Will it be much noisier thank the standard engine?

Cheers,

Dom

All depends on the exhaust used, it can be kept factory quiet with the correct system

Just to let you know we have now got the 2zz-ge Mk1 project at the garage, we have the 2zz-ge already removed from the Corolla T-sport donor, should be a nice conversion!

..if I ever get my T-bar's tinworm sorted out, I`ll be salivating for such an upgrade. Sounds really good, re: only 10kgs heavier than the standard lump. :+: Swift and light - nice!

We have now converted the Corolla gearbox into an Mr2 friendly box by moving the shift linkage to the front of the gearbox, i've also installed a Mk3 LSD unit into it and also fitted the Mk3 6th gear assembly for better ratios.... pics coming soon.

THE PROJECT BEGINS

This one is a another first in the UK, we have been building up to this one for quite a while planning it out, and promises to be a fantastic conversion, so here goes!

We started out by giving Mark his dream gearbox, a Corolla T-sport 6 speed unit, but then stripped it down and installed a Mk3 Mr2 LSD unit and also swapped in the 6th gear assembly from the Mk3 (better 6th gear ratio than the Corolla 6th).

The box was then converted for Mr2 use by making custom selector rods coming out the front end of the Corolla casing instead of the rear.

We broke the whole Corolla T-sport several weeks ago and ended up with this....

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0421-1.jpg

Mark then sourced the aftermarket exhaust manifold because the Corolla one was just unworkable in the Mk1.

This is Marks engine bay with 4a-ge....

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0417-1.jpg

And about an hour later it was on the floor...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0423-1.jpg

Nice empty engine bay...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0424-1.jpg

So LOTS to do, but i'm looking forward to this one, should retain the high revving nature of the stock engine without any weight penalty.

The 2zz is now in the bay, with just one engine mount to make on the drivers side. I think i am going to make a bespoke mount that joins the old chassis mount onto the new 2zz bracket, that way it keeps everything reversable if mark ever feels the need to put a 4age back in :)

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0458-1.jpg

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0456-1.jpg

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0455-1.jpg

The Corolla bracket is about 6" higher up than the Mk1 chassis mount.

Without being to graphic, I'm almost nursing a semi. Loving it Mr W.

Cheers steve, it should be pretty good this one!

Today i sorted the drivers mount out, there were several ways to do it, we looked at making an adapter to go between an upside down Mk1 mount and the Corolla bracket but it was just going to be too long and have too much stress on it, so i wasn't happy with that idea. Instead we made extension plates that are welded onto the chassis mounts, this holds the Mk1 mount in the right place and after we filed out the holes a little the mount went on. The engine now sits perfectly level on all axis. I still have to seam seal and paint the mount but you get the idea. On the next 2zz build i'd probably cut the Mk1 mount off entirely and make the whole thing from scratch, we saved having to drop the engine out again doing it this way. The mount is also working the way it is supposed to (as it is on a 4age), which i like.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0463-1.jpg

Also the rad and heater pipe plumbing is done, nothing hard, just joining A to B...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0464-1.jpg

One of the major parts of this build is constructing all of the gearshift cable assembly.... basically nothing bolts up, do not believe all you read on the internet folks! So i am making the cable bracketry from scratch. This is done by selecting Neutral at the shift levers, and positioning the gearstick right in the centre of the gate and securing it there while the brackets are made. So far i have only managed to make the first parts that the cables clip into, i need to add a lot more support and brackets to this to stop them moving, at the moment they are not secured to anything other than the cables, but the cables themselves have a nice free run without any obstruction at all.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0465-1.jpg

Mark wants this conversion to be quiet, so induction kits and loud exhausts are out. I am making some pipework that runs from the throttle body to the Mk1 airbox, so it should all look very OEM as well...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0462-1.jpg

I have to make a section that fits where the yellow box is, for the Maf meter.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0461-1.jpg

By Friday everything should be done bar the exhaust and wiring.

Today saw the gear cable bracket assembly finished.... i basically gave up on all of the current information out there on the web at the moment and made my own.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0468-1.jpg

Here it is fitted with the clutch line bracket welded on...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0477-1.jpg

The gearchange works perfectly, nice and slick with no tight spots anywhere, and the beauty of this custom cable assembly means i haven't had to touch a single thing at the stick end, that is all stock. You will notice we have also polybushed the front torque mount, we did the rear one as well.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0469-1.jpg

I also made the Maf adapter...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0471-1.jpg

Here it is fitted with all intake plumbing finished...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0473-1.jpg

Also above the fuel pressure regulator is fitted, this allows the return style Mr2 system to have a working return, plus we can control the pressure.

An overview of the bay now, just wiring and exhaust to go... you will notice i have had to turn the battery 90*, space is tight but it all fits.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0474-1.jpg

Today saw the last of the plumbing completed, i fitted a Mk2 filler neck which has been T'd into the radiator pipe making this the highest point (vital).

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0479-1.jpg

Here is the Mk1 expansion bottle back in its former home, now i had to remove the brake servo pipe and reroute the servo pipework so that left me with a rather nice pipe with brackets on it that lined up nicely with spare holes in the rear firewall, a perfect coolant overflow pipe.... how's that for recycling? Woodsport, helping save the environment lol.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0480-1.jpg

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0481-1.jpg

Just exhaust and wiring to go.

Well after a bit of spaghetti juggling today she fired into life! Still no exhaust fitted so a video will come after i've done that, but it runs.

I had a few issues with missing power feeds from the ISCV and MAF sensor not to mention an immobiliser issue which threw a few surprises but nothing we couldn't overcome. I have had to make a Mk1 oil pressure sensor adapter to screw into the oil filter housing instead of the 2zz idiot light sensor and i have also had to make a water housing that fits inline on one of the rad pipes so we had somewhere to run the coolant temp sensor (for dash gauge).

So just the exhaust to sort and debugging (if any!)

I took a video today of the engine running, this is on a Mk2 NA rear silencer and a merged downpipe that i forgot to take pics of! Anyway here it is, it is a very quiet engine indeed which mark really insisted on, the camera mic makes it sound a lot louder than it actually is, i promise you it's as quiet as OEM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3LQ0eKiiso

Brilliant! :+: Now just a vid to see it all running, and want to know how it compares seat of the bum feeling to the standard thing! ;) Fantastic work though! :+:

Paul you're a star!! :clap:
Superb work, I've just watched that video 5 times and its just how I wanted the transplant to be. I know the OEM intake and exhaust are probably not to everyone's tastes but the point is I expressed my wishes to Paul and he made it happen. His communication throughout the project has been faultless and the end result is a car that I can enjoy everyday with no downsides and about 70bhp more :D
Also, I don't know much about Durham but I know now I can't wait to go there!

Pics of the Mk2 NA exhaust....

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0491-1.jpg

The Y pipe merge i made...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0490-1.jpg

I noticed the rear firewall getting quite hot around the exhaust, and the ECU is on the other side of that wall, so i added a chequer plate shield around the exhaust, looks a bit industrial but this build is function over form.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0489-1.jpg

I also stuck a bit on the back of the ECU for good measure...

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...DSCN0487-1.jpg

I suppose i could move the ECU, but it is bolted in the stock Mk1 position and moving it is a pain in the ass.

During running up we have noticed some heatsoak issues at idle only, either the 2zz water pump is not up to the job on a Mk1 or we have a dodgy thermostat, so i've ordered a new stat and hopefully that will cure it.

Brilliant job !!

Looking at all the posts on this subject, I have an S1 Elise but miss my Mk1 like crazy at the moment (it has been laid up in a sorry state for over 3 years now). The Elise and the Mk1 have so much in common with each other I place equal value on both one is not better than the other. One thing I will say is that a "shed" of a mk1 will outlast a "shed" of an Elise. Unless you pay upward of 10k for a good S1 Elise you will have all manor of spend to come.

Last night (fueled on by monitoring your conversion) I hooked up a battery to the mk1, turned on the ignition, watched all the lights come up bright as the battery loaded, turned the key and to my utter amazement after only 2 or 3 cranks she sprung into life ! its been over 2 years since that engine last ran ! and it has 250k plus on it and never had the head off ! Not bad for a car that until last night has sat under a mound of boxes and stuff and been used to rippen off tomatoes in !! I think she will get a good wash for that !

I don't underestimate the restoration task ahead, she needs alot of welding so it will be a nut and bolt rebuild job all new suspension / brakes etc but I know that i want to increase its power and keep the characteristics. I toiled with the idea of supercharging, then the blacktop but this conversion makes so much sense to me. I don't want to hack the body about so the only thing that is a niggle is the right hand engine mount. I guess there are options for this ? Is a machined block bracket to make the mk1 bracket fit a total non starter ?

I have a lot of saving and searching to do so will probably not start until next year now, but maybe start cleaning and stripping the car to start with this year

Keep up the good work Paul !

Hi,

Forgive my impatience. I would like to enquire as to whether this project has been completed and invite Mr Woods and his client to comment on their satisfaction with the result.

Gentlemen?

We were very happy with the way the car drove, it was very responsive and revved like a madman, basically the same characteristics as the 4age except more power. The 6 speed box with the LSD we added was perfect for a Mk1 although the position of reverse takes some getting used to.

This build was a big learning curve, even more so than our V6 builds and there are several things we would do differently next time. The torque mounts also require a little fine tuning to get a fine balance between engine movement and chassis vibration. We also found a wiring anomoly in the information that is currently out there that causes a battery drain if followed to the letter.

Needless to say not all internet information should be trusted!

In all we were happy with the outcome on a first time build like this, barring a few teething issues the car drove extremely well and i loved the feeling of it coming on cam when the VVti kicked in.

Mark will no doubt be along to tell you what the car feels like to drive compared to before.

Hi Paul, I'm new to this forum, but seen and read a lot about your work earlier (you are a true Mk1 legend :clap: ).

Anyways, I've done a conversion to a Japanese 20V Silvertop engine with Blacktop electronics on my AW11. Being a relatively costly build (probly around 2000£ in total...) I wasn't pleased with it at all really, it was just a bit more power, and a bit nicer sound. To top it off the engine broke down on me 3months after investing all my savings on it...

I was in a bit of a bad mood because of this, and considered either importing another engine or doing a costly rebuild of the one that broke down on me. None of the alternatives would give a huge upgrade in power seeing that I've allready driven a 20v engine and not really understanding the big hype about it. Also it would cost me another shitload of money...

So I woke up this morning and someone at TS-ogn (Toyota Sportscar - OwnersGroup Norway) forum linked to this crazy guy putting a Audi V8 into a AW11. So I just had to read up, and wow what a build.

Midways into the thread you linked into this 2ZZ thread, and thats when my sunday mood changed from mild AW11 drepression to a fiery "Holy **** this is what im gonna do next!!!" mood!

Anyways, thanks for enlightening me on this possibility, I've never considered it an option before, and i must say I truly belive in it! I'm starting a new savings account, and when I have the cash in my hands I'll give you a call and transport my poor AW11 into your workshop.

In the meantime; Keep up the good work!

From up north,
ArildM ;)

Double post, sorry!

Just thought I’d write a long overdue update to his project.
We had a few initial problems which is to be expected with a project like this (1st in the country) but I’m very pleased to say that the bugs were ironed out about a month ago and now the car is exactly how I want it.
First problem was that the custom tubular exhaust manifold (designed for MK3 with 2zz transplant) I bought from Ebay in the states was way too thin and kept cracking. It was welded up in one place then it would just crack again in another place. In the end Paul sorted this for me at his own cost by cutting and shutting a MK3 manifold to suit and using the standard MK3 manifold to engine bracing. I’m very pleased to report there have be no further problems with this since.
Second problem was that there was a slight gear oil leak from the extended gear selector shaft. Again Paul managed to buy the correct seal from Toyota and this has been bonded on externally now making a oil tight seal. Throughout these problems and other very minor issues Paul has been outstanding with his customer service, always listening and rectifying the issues.
Anyway, how does it drive?…I decided early on that I wanted the closest ratios available in the gearbox (apart from 6th) with the torsen LSD and I’m very pleased I went for this setup. The traction on take off is great with both wheels digging into the tarmac. When the engine hits 6200rpm the second cam kicks in and the car just lets rip singing around to the 8500rpm cut out. Due to the close ratio box there is a momentary pause after the change to second gear then it hits 6200rpm cam change-over point and it takes off again. 3rd to 4th, 4th to 5th and 5th to 6th are all really close so from 2nd gear on the car never drops out of the high lift cam if all the revs are used. It is very addictive and amazingly fun. There is nothing better than taking it for a blast along known country roads on a quiet Sunday morning, with the engine on the high lift cam the noise is like a group A normally aspirated rally car ïÂ�Å*
The engine makes more power and torque at all points in the rev range than the standard 4AGE but it still retains and even enhances the high revving nature that makes the Mk1 MR2 so much fun in the first place. As Paul put it it’s like a Mk1 plus. Since this is my everyday car I also wanted it to cruise well on the motorway, be quiet and return decent mpg. I’m pleased to say due to the standard MK2 backbox, standard Mk1 intake and 6th gear it does indeed cruise more quietly than the standard Mk1 and returns about 40mpg at a steady 70 - 80mph. Handling wise due to the LSD this has improved immensely and in the wet I’m now able to hang the rear out around roundabouts and hold it there on the power in a lovely drift. The 2ZZ engine is very light being all alloy and is lighter than the original iron block 4AGE, this has cancelled out the weight of the extra (6th) gear and has maintained the great balance of the standard Mk1 MR2. Paul fitted a full set of poly bushes for me so next week I’ll have the car fully aligned to the TRD settings which should hopefully sharpen the initial turn in a little. Other than that I may experiment with drilling out the poly engine mounts slightly since at the moment there is a little too much vibration at tick-over due to the ridged nature of the mounts.
Overall though as you’ve probably guessed I’m delighted with this conversion… hats off to Paul at Woodsport for not only creating it but also the backup he’s given me since.

Many thanks for the superb write up Mark, and good to see that the initial teething problems have been overcome, we got there in the end! (out of interest i'm currently fitting a 2zz into a Starlet and have done the same thing by making an exhaust manifold myself rather than rely on that Ebay stuff)

Hopefully we can catch up in future at a show or meet etc :+:

This looks like something I would be seriously interested in Mr. Woods. Given your prior experience in this swap, what sort of money would you now be looking at to complete this work?

Could you do me rough price on the 2zz conversion plus the 6 speed box and LSD? I also have a good 4-age engine that could be used as a trade in if required, less than 80k miles on the clock.

While it will be well into next year before I contemplate this conversion, a rough idea of the pennies and shillings required would be welcome! Also, what would the timeframe be?

Many thanks,
Paddy

Hi Paddy, the donor Celica/Corollas seem to sell from £1000-£1800, so i can't give you an exact quote but at least you will know the ballpark.

The cost of the labour plus all other parts required comes to around £2500, that would include your LSD fitment into the 6 speed box.

So it could be done for as little as £3500 rising to £4300, just depends on the donor cost. Subtract around £600 if you don't want the LSD.

These prices are not totally set in stone, it really depends on the parts cost and what sort of spec you want from the build etc.

Thanks Paul.

Thanks for coming back Paul. Good to have an idea of where I am going in the next 12-18 months with my car.

In the meantime, I will keep a look out for any scrapped 2zz engines this side of the water, may help to bring the cost down.

Cheers,
Paddy

Absolutely, the cheaper the donor the better :+:

I have a cheap donor for sale if anyone is interested in doing this conversion
http://www.mr2mk1club.com/forum/view...hp?f=58&t=6765

Here is a video I took of the clocks as its accelerating (on private land)
http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...72010023-1.jpg

This was an early video with fuel pressure set to 52psi so probably running very rich as it should be 44-50psi. I will use my Innovate A/F meter soon to set the fuel pressure so I reckon this'll release a few more BHP.

This is not a track car (I have a MK2 CRX track car) however I may take it to the Nurburgring soon to give it a bit of a test. If I do I'll be sure to get some video footage.

I wanted to check power and A/F ratios so I got it rolling roaded the other day. Pleased to say that it A/F's were spot on despite guesstimate on FPR the 2ZZ ECU seems to have sorted it out. Peak power it made 156hp at the wheels which is about the book 190 at the fly. Above 6K there is a whistle believed to be the stock mk2 backbox being a bit restrictive, so possibly more to come in the future.

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/w...0122010067.jpg

Great stuff Mark, oh i sent you a PM on the OC, did you get it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsport

Great stuff Mark, oh i sent you a PM on the OC, did you get it?

---

Hi Paul, I missed that PM, however just sent you a reply.

Hi Paul, still saving up money here 8-)
Just a quick question, do you recon it would be possible to fit a Rotrex charger to the 2ZZ engine without modifying the engine bay?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs8DliECVM

The Rotrex charger seems to make the Mk3 bloody damn fast. (0-100kmt in ~4,5-5 seconds)
(105mm pulley and peaking 0.67bar at 8200rpm = 325 Crank HP)

I'm afraid i couldn't really say, i think it "might" fit but it's one of those i'd need to suck it and see jobs.

Just a quick note to say i have a Supercharged 2zz engine package coming here in about 4-5 weeks time, these are extremely rare, and it won't hang around for more than a few days before someone snaps it up. The engine package is being offered as a full conversion by me only and not as just an engine for sale.

If you're interested in owning a MK1 2zz supercharger with 6 speed gearbox drop me a PM, thanks Paul.

Quick thread revival, many years on and we have completed 5 more 2zz-ge Mk1 conversions, they have been somewhat refined over the years with a definitive mod list and upgrades along the way.

This is the current 2zz-ge Mk1 we have built, it still needs a few cosmetic final touches.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/images/imp...qvhcpqyx-1.jpg

Thread update, we now have all of the major components on the shelf to make this engine install a full plug and play swap without the need to weld chassis hangers.

The bolt in mount assembly is here.... http://www.woodsport.org/joomla/inde...2-engine-mount

The gear cable bracket is here... http://www.woodsport.org/joomla/inde...-cable-bracket

And i also supply a full plug and play wiring harness for £400 with me supplying all donor harness parts, no need to send me anything from your car. This is a turnkey harness, plug it in and go.

The above parts means you buy a 2zz-ge Celica donor car, or a Celica engine and gearbox, and it becomes a straight fitment, the only thing you need to fabricate or have made is the exhaust system.