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View Full Version : Mk1 2zz-ge conversion interest.



Woodsport
17th September 2009, 05:49 PM
Hi chaps, i am being approached more and more these days from mk1 owners enquiring about fitting the celica 2zz-ge engine into a mk1.So i have decided to do the research into what this conversion would cost including the donor vehicle (smashed celica basically!)

I would be interested in anyones thoughts on this conversion and if you think it would be popular etc. We have never done one yet but it will be a walk in the park for us compared to the v6 and 3s-gte swaps we currently do.

In a nutshell this would give 190bhp, rev like a madman and retain the lightweight characteristics of the stock engine.

All opinions good or bad welcome.

Ben
17th September 2009, 06:27 PM
Sounds fun to me! How much are we talking cost-wise?

Monkeymax
18th September 2009, 12:43 AM
Must say Paul, it's somethign I've been thinking about lately too. With more scrapped Elises/Exiges, the engines are probably also nickable from there (though the Celica or Corolla would be cheaper!). Though this does also mean there are further 'upgrade' options available for these engines... (Supercharged 2ZZ-GE... Yummy!!! :D )

Which gearbox would you be thinking of using? A six-speeder such as the C64 (though that's £££s) would be awesome with the high revving 2ZZ. (8600 rpm before you hit the rev-limiter... :) )

Should be in keeping with the character of the 4AGE in many ways which is why I was really warming to the idea. Similar weight, similar characteristics (it seems), both high revving - and both had some input from Yamaha...

TBH I've not got the money for either at the moment, but the 2ZZ was something I was thinking about as an alternative to the beast of a V6!

Woodsport
18th September 2009, 06:16 AM
hi ben, well i have been looking at celica donor salvage cars (initially we would need to buy complete cars for the transponder/keys and everything we would need) and it looks like under £1000 gets one, i suppose the harder they have been hit the cheaper they are.

I would estimate the actual conversion labour to be somewhere around the £1500 region so i suppose around £2500 supplied and fitted sounds feasible although that is by no means set in stone.If we can find a supplier of 2zz engines that can also give us everything needed (front clips ideally) for under £1000 and we can get the labour down as well then this becomes a very cheap conversion indeed.

Hi max, i would be able to offer this conversion either with the stock mk1 gearbox or with the Mk3 6 speeder although that would ramp the cost of the job up a bit due to needing to redesign the shifter assembly at the stick end (mk1's pull a cable to go into 1st gear,mk3's push the same cable for 1st gear, so it would all be backwards!)

I will get more info on it as time goes by,its only a matter of time before we start doing these as they are a nice modern version of the 4age in every way and will compliment the mk1.It won't be as nuts as the v6 swap or 3sgte, but a great option all the same.

Monkeymax
18th September 2009, 01:01 PM
Paul, in order to avoid the transponder/key issue, could you not go standalone? Or do you still need the standard ECU & other bits? (Just a wondering, though I guess going standalone could add a grand to the cost)

I guess that not only will this be a cheaper conversion, but you shouldn't have to cut into any of the other bulkheads, would you? i.e. boot will remain intact and standard size & shape?

Would the changing of the shifter assembly be a huge problem? I remember (the other) Paul coming up with a simple solution for his V8 into a Mk3, so I guess similar could be used for this conversion?

Sorry for all the questions...! Just really have been interested in this possibility for a while - well, since having a ride in a 2ZZ powered Elise... :) I know they're completely different beasts, but still.... Drool!

Woodsport
18th September 2009, 05:05 PM
The engine can be very easily run on a standalone but it does indeed add a grand or more to the cost, plus mapping time.... so it ends up costing more than a v6 mk1, which is a no brainer if its all out power you are after, v6 every single time.

So to keep the costs down it would be on the stock ecu.Yep PaulM used the same shifter linkage design as i did on his v8 swap,i gave him details of what i did.... we have been helping each other as it goes along.

The entire boot wall would remain intact, nothing at all would be cut on this conversion.

Woodsport
19th September 2009, 05:10 PM
After having a good look around i have spotted this one on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2002-TOYOTA-CELIC ... 286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2002-TOYOTA-CELICA-VVTI-SALVAGE-DAMAGE-REPAIRABLE_W0QQitemZ120468871931QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item1c0c811afb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

Something like this is absolutely perfect for the project, so donors are certainly out there.

mr2mk1chick
20th September 2009, 08:13 AM
sounds like a great engine to go in the mk1, and should appeal to those wanting the revvy NA route, with a more modern engine.
good power and weight etc :+:

not for me though, when you can almost buy a £6k elise (albeit sheddy) for the kind of money it would cost for a good mk1 donor plus you supply and fit......

Woodsport
20th September 2009, 12:45 PM
Hi jo, not sure i agree with the £6k pricetag? Roughly £2.5-£3k for the conversion so i am not sure where you are getting £6k from? Surely people would be converting the mk1 they already own?

Woodsport
21st September 2009, 06:06 AM
Thinking about that some more Jo, even if you went out and bought a mk1 to convert they are out there for under £1500 in good condition, some well under a grand... i make that around £4k all in including the mk1 if you did not have one to start with, confused by the £6k :eh:

mr2mk1chick
21st September 2009, 10:08 AM
I agree the conversion is cheaper but i would save and spend 6K on an old elise

2.5 - 3k conversion
1.5 k mk1

4 - 4.5 k conversion mk1 - probably more expensive to insure than a std elise, maybe unreliable if compared to some (not yours) mk1.5's
plus ££ for suspension upgrades £400 and brake upgrades £? 200-400

=~£5k :think:

You asked for positive and neg comments:

I like the conversion idea in principle - good engine and nicely suited to the mk1, but value for money, i'd save a bit more and buy something off the shelf

Woodsport
21st September 2009, 05:28 PM
Jo i was after positives and negatives about the 2zz into mk1 swap, not "i wouldn't bother,instead i'd go out and buy a sheddy £6k elise" , how does that promote mk1's and this club? I am trying to move things forward with fresh ideas and modern conversions to keep these cars alive, sorry but "go buy an elise instead" is not what i would expect from a prominent Mk1 club member.

Hardly constructive in my opinion :-: and that attitude pretty much sums up why i don't post much on the mk1 club forum anymore.There are people who are genuinely interested in having a modern powerplant in a mk1.... if that is not for you then fine, but i would expect you to promote the mk1 club and not the elise owners club.

FYI Mk1 owners are here because they want the best from their Mk1, not an elise.

spudgun
21st September 2009, 06:09 PM
How do Paul,
If I was going down the engine conversion route this, for me, would be the only route I would consider entertaining. However, I'm just about to buy a NEW corrola 'box off of Kev Crane, which I will mod the linkages on, for my car. This would mean I wouldn't be very keen to move away from the 4age engine unless the 2zz-ge bolts up to this gearbox.
Best of luck with it though and I'm sure you will get some takers.

edit: just read,in your earlier post, that the 2zz-ge will bolt up to a mk1 box. Now that I didn't know :idea:

Woodsport
21st September 2009, 06:18 PM
Hi steve mate :wave: the good news is the 2zz should bolt up to a 4age gearbox by using the celica bellhousing bit.I know folk have used the 6 speed celica gubbins and hybridised the 4age bellhousing onto it to allow a 6 speed 4age package.

mr2mk1chick
22nd September 2009, 09:01 AM
I love the mk1 :+:
but its not worth spending that money on an upgrade IMO - simple :+:

I'd keep the mk1 (which i love in its current form and performance) AND have a sheddy elise :lol:
you just asked for opinions :angel:

what i'm not doing is slating the mk1, why would i slate a car i love, i'm just not convinced on value for money on the conversion

not detrimental to the club in any way, as we love mk1s :+:

andrewaw11
20th October 2009, 07:52 AM
i think this is a fantastic idea, as i think the 2.0 t would be too much power for the mk1 and the 1.8 would make it up to modern standards, i have a friend with a company who run a team of lotus 2-elevens, they get through engines a fair bit each season. but they might have a source of second hand stuff. ill investigate :think:

Woodsport
20th October 2009, 05:47 PM
Agreed, i think it's only a matter of time before we see this as a common option like the SC swap is.

old petrolhead
20th October 2009, 07:32 PM
I bought my T bar that Paul put the Camry lump in for £300.00 & it had a super Floor & suspension mounts & just the rust in the wheel arches. I am sure Paul remembers it.

Woodsport
21st October 2009, 05:52 AM
Yes indeed, one of the most solid rust free (underneath/chassis) shells we have ever seen, it was like new under it!

kevs aw11
14th November 2009, 11:12 AM
Hi paul
very interested in your 2zz-ge conversion :clap: :clap: could we use the 190 bhp and run with no cat :twisted: :twisted: what would that do for performance
thanks kev :wave:

Woodsport
14th November 2009, 11:36 AM
To be honest i think the 190bhp is the only 2zz available anyway? With no cat it should be 195bhp or maybe a little more at a guess.

Either way i think a 2zz mk1 would be a great conversion, not as "set your hair alight" as the v6 or 3s-gte swaps but far less intrusive for those wanting to keep it with the same characteristics as the 4age.

kevs aw11
14th November 2009, 12:53 PM
Hi paul
sounds good to me :+: will be coming up to you for a cam belt change soon we can have a chat then
thanks kev :wave:

Woodsport
14th November 2009, 01:30 PM
Yep no problems at all kev, speak to you soon :+:

BennyTheW
15th November 2009, 09:48 PM
Hiya... I too have been looking for a bit more poke from my retro rocket... I know that everyone harps on about the mk2 turbo being the best bang for buck but i do feel like the high reving thrill of the car would be lost a bit...

Hence ive been eyeing up the option of doing a 20v conversion, but, if the 2zz would be better performance, and less money than the mk2 engine, that would seem like the best option...

so... what would you assume (and i know this may be half a guess) would be the performance of the 2zz swap (could you guess on the bhp per ton and how does this fair against other conversions?)

And the other thing is, what kind of upgrade route is there for the engine, bolt on parts, cams, availability of superchargers? If there are available mods (due to the Elise) then surely this is another bonus...

Im sure im not the only one looking at this with keen interest...

spudgun
15th November 2009, 10:26 PM
Paul, maybe you can answer this one for me. I recently bought a gearbox off of Kev, a C59 he bought some time ago and never used.
Having looked at this, the American market uses a C59 gearbox in a Matrix which uses the 1zzfe and 2zzge as it's range of engines. Am i right in thinking then the gearbox fitting pattern on this line of engines is the same as the 4a-ge?
It seems like it but any clarification would help.
Cheers

Steve

Woodsport
16th November 2009, 07:01 AM
hi steve, the C59 is off the 1zz corolla so that has the same bellhousing pattern as the 2zz series celica engines (C60,63,64).Unfortunately the bellhousing pattern on the C59 and C60 gearboxes is not the same as the C series Mk1 gearbox, however by swapping the casings over and the input shaft bearing it is possible to get the C59/C60 to bolt straight onto a 4age.

It is advisable to also adjust the diff preload when doing this because obviously using shims from one half of the gearbox case may well throw it out of tolerance, but you could just get away with using both of the C59 shims, i'd say it will be fine because we do this a lot with the mk3 LSD fitments into Mk2 NA boxes by using the Mk2 shims.

So yes it is doable but needs a little work, you will also need to use Mk2 NA driveshafts with that set up, or a nice celica st162/182 supported shaft set up is the way i favour doing it to give you equal length shafts..... sorry probably overloading you with info here!

Hi benny, the 2zz will certainly let you retain the high revving nature that the 4age has, and it is 190bhp in stock form. It will be without a doubt much better than a 20v, i don't rate those engines at all, 153bhp and revs a bit higher, not worth the fuss really, so the 2zz will deliver so much more.It also has aftermarket support because of the elise connections and can be supercharged.

BennyTheW
16th November 2009, 08:18 PM
Sounds like my engine plans have changed then!!

one other thing tho, do you have a rough idea how much more the package would cost with the 6 speed? I really feel that the gearbox/engine combo would give stunning amounts of fun!!

Woodsport
17th November 2009, 07:01 AM
That would really depend on wether i could source a mk3 6 speed box or adapt the celica one to work.... certainly under £500 as a ballpark figure but i won't know until i try it.

BennyTheW
17th November 2009, 11:47 AM
sounds really good...

I'll start saving my pennies (and throw in some overtime!) and fingers crossed i might be knocking on your door next year...

Im sure i wont be the only one!

Look forward to seeing the build when someone takes the plunge till then tho!!!

Woodsport
17th November 2009, 06:03 PM
No probs, i do think this will make a truly excellent mk1 option.

BennyTheW
20th November 2009, 12:23 AM
Just one more thing... (for now, im sure i'll think of more!)

Ive got a tintop, JDM with Aircon... could you do a conversion that keeps the aircon working? And if so, does that push the price up much??

Would hate to have redundant buttons! And even tho im in Scotland, the aircon is a fly feature!

Woodsport
20th November 2009, 07:15 AM
Keeping the AC is a piece of cake :+:

BennyTheW
20th November 2009, 04:33 PM
Nice one...

Now all i have to do is convince my pocket to bend to my will and im in there!

BennyTheW
24th November 2009, 02:07 PM
Found write up HERE>http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2255550

the engine bay looks so amazing when its done!!

BennyTheW
9th December 2009, 03:43 AM
sorry to keep harping on and that...

but im amazed (even considering the time of year) that no-one has jumped at this yet...

If im the first do i get a guinea pig discount???

:oops:

it'll be a 6speeder too if that seals the deal! :+:

Woodsport
9th December 2009, 06:46 AM
Yes i always do the first conversion of its kind at a reduced rate, mainly because i learn a lot in the process too for the next one.I would have thought this was a hugely popular swap to do, a nice powerful modern replacement for the 4age, but then a lot of owners still love to keep it all original, which is fair enough.

Maybe in a year or two when we have done a few the word will get out.

scoobyblue
9th December 2009, 12:09 PM
Found write up HERE>http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2255550

the engine bay looks so amazing when its done!!
tried to have a look but norton has told me that that site is a major threat!

russthedude
10th December 2009, 12:41 PM
Hi Paul, I'm really interested in this idea. More modern technology/engine: good. more revs: good. less cash: always good.

when do you think you'll be in a position to start the first one?

Woodsport
10th December 2009, 06:00 PM
Hi mate, that really depends on our current workload, we have a big shipment of v6 engines coming in that have priority at the mo, so i will need to sort everything out and work out the schedule over the new year.

Worst case would be a few months into the new year if you said you definately wanted to go ahead now, to give me enough time to source a decent front clip and all parts needed. :+:

russthedude
11th December 2009, 10:54 AM
spring would be good for me, I don't mind cycling or driving around in the mini while it is done once the weather starts drying out :)

what do you think about the brakes? I'm assuming stock brakes are going to be ok because it's not a stupid amount of power going in?

Woodsport
11th December 2009, 05:50 PM
Ah a common misconception is that a bigger engine requires better brakes, this is not the case, speed is speed regardless of wether it is v8 powered or lawnmower engine powered, your brakes do not need to do any extra work to reduce the car from 100mph to zero if you have more BHP,in fact you could have a gazillion BHP and still use the same brakes.

It is the extra weight of a bigger engine that requires a brake upgrade, more weight= more inertia thrown forward during braking, more friction and more effort required by the brakes to bring the extra weight to a stop.

The 2zz is going to be about the same weight as a 4age give or take 10 kgs so no brake upgrade needed.A nice st165 celica twin pot conversion always works very well though regardless. :+:

russthedude
12th December 2009, 12:26 AM
i wondered that but just put it down to that if you've got more power you'll use it, and so will want to stop a bit quicker. the quicker you stop, the quicker you can speed off and do it all over again :mrgreen:

Woodsport
28th February 2010, 02:27 PM
Our first 2zz mk1 is now booked in for around 5-6 weeks time, should be a stonking conversion that one! I will do a build thread here to cover it when it happens. :+:

Domster
19th March 2010, 10:25 PM
RE The Elise comments; I had a brand new Exige II and although it drove fab, it fell to bits (thankfully within the Warranty period) - give me a classic MR2 MK1 anyday :D

I'd definitely like to have this conversion at some point soon. Will it be much noisier thank the standard engine?

Cheers,

Dom

Woodsport
20th March 2010, 08:22 AM
All depends on the exhaust used, it can be kept factory quiet with the correct system

Woodsport
25th April 2010, 03:56 PM
Just to let you know we have now got the 2zz-ge Mk1 project at the garage, we have the 2zz-ge already removed from the Corolla T-sport donor, should be a nice conversion!

Lanc_NF988
10th May 2010, 08:17 PM
..if I ever get my T-bar's tinworm sorted out, I`ll be salivating for such an upgrade. Sounds really good, re: only 10kgs heavier than the standard lump. :+: Swift and light - nice!

Woodsport
12th May 2010, 06:19 AM
We have now converted the Corolla gearbox into an Mr2 friendly box by moving the shift linkage to the front of the gearbox, i've also installed a Mk3 LSD unit into it and also fitted the Mk3 6th gear assembly for better ratios.... pics coming soon.

Woodsport
21st May 2010, 05:29 PM
THE PROJECT BEGINS

This one is a another first in the UK, we have been building up to this one for quite a while planning it out, and promises to be a fantastic conversion, so here goes!

We started out by giving Mark his dream gearbox, a Corolla T-sport 6 speed unit, but then stripped it down and installed a Mk3 Mr2 LSD unit and also swapped in the 6th gear assembly from the Mk3 (better 6th gear ratio than the Corolla 6th).

The box was then converted for Mr2 use by making custom selector rods coming out the front end of the Corolla casing instead of the rear.

We broke the whole Corolla T-sport several weeks ago and ended up with this....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0421.jpg

Mark then sourced the aftermarket exhaust manifold because the Corolla one was just unworkable in the Mk1.

This is Marks engine bay with 4a-ge....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0417.jpg

And about an hour later it was on the floor...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0423.jpg

Nice empty engine bay...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0424.jpg

So LOTS to do, but i'm looking forward to this one, should retain the high revving nature of the stock engine without any weight penalty.

Woodsport
25th May 2010, 05:08 PM
The 2zz is now in the bay, with just one engine mount to make on the drivers side. I think i am going to make a bespoke mount that joins the old chassis mount onto the new 2zz bracket, that way it keeps everything reversable if mark ever feels the need to put a 4age back in :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0458.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0456.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0455.jpg

The Corolla bracket is about 6" higher up than the Mk1 chassis mount.

spudgun
25th May 2010, 07:48 PM
Without being to graphic, I'm almost nursing a semi. Loving it Mr W.

Woodsport
26th May 2010, 05:56 AM
Cheers steve, it should be pretty good this one!

Woodsport
26th May 2010, 06:01 PM
Today i sorted the drivers mount out, there were several ways to do it, we looked at making an adapter to go between an upside down Mk1 mount and the Corolla bracket but it was just going to be too long and have too much stress on it, so i wasn't happy with that idea. Instead we made extension plates that are welded onto the chassis mounts, this holds the Mk1 mount in the right place and after we filed out the holes a little the mount went on. The engine now sits perfectly level on all axis. I still have to seam seal and paint the mount but you get the idea. On the next 2zz build i'd probably cut the Mk1 mount off entirely and make the whole thing from scratch, we saved having to drop the engine out again doing it this way. The mount is also working the way it is supposed to (as it is on a 4age), which i like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0463.jpg

Also the rad and heater pipe plumbing is done, nothing hard, just joining A to B...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0464.jpg

One of the major parts of this build is constructing all of the gearshift cable assembly.... basically nothing bolts up, do not believe all you read on the internet folks! So i am making the cable bracketry from scratch. This is done by selecting Neutral at the shift levers, and positioning the gearstick right in the centre of the gate and securing it there while the brackets are made. So far i have only managed to make the first parts that the cables clip into, i need to add a lot more support and brackets to this to stop them moving, at the moment they are not secured to anything other than the cables, but the cables themselves have a nice free run without any obstruction at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0465.jpg

Mark wants this conversion to be quiet, so induction kits and loud exhausts are out. I am making some pipework that runs from the throttle body to the Mk1 airbox, so it should all look very OEM as well...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0462.jpg

I have to make a section that fits where the yellow box is, for the Maf meter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0461.jpg

By Friday everything should be done bar the exhaust and wiring.

Woodsport
27th May 2010, 05:14 PM
Today saw the gear cable bracket assembly finished.... i basically gave up on all of the current information out there on the web at the moment and made my own.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0468.jpg

Here it is fitted with the clutch line bracket welded on...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0477.jpg

The gearchange works perfectly, nice and slick with no tight spots anywhere, and the beauty of this custom cable assembly means i haven't had to touch a single thing at the stick end, that is all stock. You will notice we have also polybushed the front torque mount, we did the rear one as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0469.jpg

I also made the Maf adapter...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0471.jpg

Here it is fitted with all intake plumbing finished...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0473.jpg

Also above the fuel pressure regulator is fitted, this allows the return style Mr2 system to have a working return, plus we can control the pressure.

An overview of the bay now, just wiring and exhaust to go... you will notice i have had to turn the battery 90*, space is tight but it all fits.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0474.jpg

Woodsport
28th May 2010, 06:27 PM
Today saw the last of the plumbing completed, i fitted a Mk2 filler neck which has been T'd into the radiator pipe making this the highest point (vital).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0479.jpg

Here is the Mk1 expansion bottle back in its former home, now i had to remove the brake servo pipe and reroute the servo pipework so that left me with a rather nice pipe with brackets on it that lined up nicely with spare holes in the rear firewall, a perfect coolant overflow pipe.... how's that for recycling? Woodsport, helping save the environment lol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0480.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0481.jpg

Just exhaust and wiring to go.

Woodsport
1st June 2010, 04:59 PM
Well after a bit of spaghetti juggling today she fired into life! Still no exhaust fitted so a video will come after i've done that, but it runs.

I had a few issues with missing power feeds from the ISCV and MAF sensor not to mention an immobiliser issue which threw a few surprises but nothing we couldn't overcome. I have had to make a Mk1 oil pressure sensor adapter to screw into the oil filter housing instead of the 2zz idiot light sensor and i have also had to make a water housing that fits inline on one of the rad pipes so we had somewhere to run the coolant temp sensor (for dash gauge).

So just the exhaust to sort and debugging (if any!)

Woodsport
4th June 2010, 05:15 PM
I took a video today of the engine running, this is on a Mk2 NA rear silencer and a merged downpipe that i forgot to take pics of! Anyway here it is, it is a very quiet engine indeed which mark really insisted on, the camera mic makes it sound a lot louder than it actually is, i promise you it's as quiet as OEM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3LQ0eKiiso

Monkeymax
4th June 2010, 05:34 PM
Brilliant! :+: Now just a vid to see it all running, and want to know how it compares seat of the bum feeling to the standard thing! ;) Fantastic work though! :+:

rexer200
4th June 2010, 08:16 PM
Paul you're a star!! :clap:
Superb work, I've just watched that video 5 times and its just how I wanted the transplant to be. I know the OEM intake and exhaust are probably not to everyone's tastes but the point is I expressed my wishes to Paul and he made it happen. His communication throughout the project has been faultless and the end result is a car that I can enjoy everyday with no downsides and about 70bhp more :D
Also, I don't know much about Durham but I know now I can't wait to go there!

Woodsport
8th June 2010, 05:40 PM
Pics of the Mk2 NA exhaust....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0491.jpg

The Y pipe merge i made...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0490.jpg

I noticed the rear firewall getting quite hot around the exhaust, and the ECU is on the other side of that wall, so i added a chequer plate shield around the exhaust, looks a bit industrial but this build is function over form.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0489.jpg

I also stuck a bit on the back of the ECU for good measure...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport3/DSCN0487.jpg

I suppose i could move the ECU, but it is bolted in the stock Mk1 position and moving it is a pain in the ass.

During running up we have noticed some heatsoak issues at idle only, either the 2zz water pump is not up to the job on a Mk1 or we have a dodgy thermostat, so i've ordered a new stat and hopefully that will cure it.

SimonH
16th June 2010, 01:07 PM
Brilliant job !!

Looking at all the posts on this subject, I have an S1 Elise but miss my Mk1 like crazy at the moment (it has been laid up in a sorry state for over 3 years now). The Elise and the Mk1 have so much in common with each other I place equal value on both one is not better than the other. One thing I will say is that a "shed" of a mk1 will outlast a "shed" of an Elise. Unless you pay upward of 10k for a good S1 Elise you will have all manor of spend to come.

Last night (fueled on by monitoring your conversion) I hooked up a battery to the mk1, turned on the ignition, watched all the lights come up bright as the battery loaded, turned the key and to my utter amazement after only 2 or 3 cranks she sprung into life ! its been over 2 years since that engine last ran ! and it has 250k plus on it and never had the head off ! Not bad for a car that until last night has sat under a mound of boxes and stuff and been used to rippen off tomatoes in !! I think she will get a good wash for that !

I don't underestimate the restoration task ahead, she needs alot of welding so it will be a nut and bolt rebuild job all new suspension / brakes etc but I know that i want to increase its power and keep the characteristics. I toiled with the idea of supercharging, then the blacktop but this conversion makes so much sense to me. I don't want to hack the body about so the only thing that is a niggle is the right hand engine mount. I guess there are options for this ? Is a machined block bracket to make the mk1 bracket fit a total non starter ?

I have a lot of saving and searching to do so will probably not start until next year now, but maybe start cleaning and stripping the car to start with this year

Keep up the good work Paul !

Bennet
16th July 2010, 06:42 PM
Hi,

Forgive my impatience. I would like to enquire as to whether this project has been completed and invite Mr Woods and his client to comment on their satisfaction with the result.

Gentlemen?

Woodsport
17th July 2010, 09:00 AM
We were very happy with the way the car drove, it was very responsive and revved like a madman, basically the same characteristics as the 4age except more power. The 6 speed box with the LSD we added was perfect for a Mk1 although the position of reverse takes some getting used to.

This build was a big learning curve, even more so than our V6 builds and there are several things we would do differently next time. The torque mounts also require a little fine tuning to get a fine balance between engine movement and chassis vibration. We also found a wiring anomoly in the information that is currently out there that causes a battery drain if followed to the letter.

Needless to say not all internet information should be trusted!

In all we were happy with the outcome on a first time build like this, barring a few teething issues the car drove extremely well and i loved the feeling of it coming on cam when the VVti kicked in.

Mark will no doubt be along to tell you what the car feels like to drive compared to before.

ArildM
29th August 2010, 11:50 AM
Hi Paul, I'm new to this forum, but seen and read a lot about your work earlier (you are a true Mk1 legend :clap: ).

Anyways, I've done a conversion to a Japanese 20V Silvertop engine with Blacktop electronics on my AW11. Being a relatively costly build (probly around 2000£ in total...) I wasn't pleased with it at all really, it was just a bit more power, and a bit nicer sound. To top it off the engine broke down on me 3months after investing all my savings on it...

I was in a bit of a bad mood because of this, and considered either importing another engine or doing a costly rebuild of the one that broke down on me. None of the alternatives would give a huge upgrade in power seeing that I've allready driven a 20v engine and not really understanding the big hype about it. Also it would cost me another shitload of money...

So I woke up this morning and someone at TS-ogn (Toyota Sportscar - OwnersGroup Norway) forum linked to this crazy guy putting a Audi V8 into a AW11. So I just had to read up, and wow what a build.

Midways into the thread you linked into this 2ZZ thread, and thats when my sunday mood changed from mild AW11 drepression to a fiery "Holy **** this is what im gonna do next!!!" mood!

Anyways, thanks for enlightening me on this possibility, I've never considered it an option before, and i must say I truly belive in it! I'm starting a new savings account, and when I have the cash in my hands I'll give you a call and transport my poor AW11 into your workshop.

In the meantime; Keep up the good work!

From up north,
ArildM ;)

ArildM
29th August 2010, 12:25 PM
Double post, sorry!

rexer200
31st October 2010, 10:35 AM
Just thought I’d write a long overdue update to his project.
We had a few initial problems which is to be expected with a project like this (1st in the country) but I’m very pleased to say that the bugs were ironed out about a month ago and now the car is exactly how I want it.
First problem was that the custom tubular exhaust manifold (designed for MK3 with 2zz transplant) I bought from Ebay in the states was way too thin and kept cracking. It was welded up in one place then it would just crack again in another place. In the end Paul sorted this for me at his own cost by cutting and shutting a MK3 manifold to suit and using the standard MK3 manifold to engine bracing. I’m very pleased to report there have be no further problems with this since.
Second problem was that there was a slight gear oil leak from the extended gear selector shaft. Again Paul managed to buy the correct seal from Toyota and this has been bonded on externally now making a oil tight seal. Throughout these problems and other very minor issues Paul has been outstanding with his customer service, always listening and rectifying the issues.
Anyway, how does it drive?…I decided early on that I wanted the closest ratios available in the gearbox (apart from 6th) with the torsen LSD and I’m very pleased I went for this setup. The traction on take off is great with both wheels digging into the tarmac. When the engine hits 6200rpm the second cam kicks in and the car just lets rip singing around to the 8500rpm cut out. Due to the close ratio box there is a momentary pause after the change to second gear then it hits 6200rpm cam change-over point and it takes off again. 3rd to 4th, 4th to 5th and 5th to 6th are all really close so from 2nd gear on the car never drops out of the high lift cam if all the revs are used. It is very addictive and amazingly fun. There is nothing better than taking it for a blast along known country roads on a quiet Sunday morning, with the engine on the high lift cam the noise is like a group A normally aspirated rally car ï*
The engine makes more power and torque at all points in the rev range than the standard 4AGE but it still retains and even enhances the high revving nature that makes the Mk1 MR2 so much fun in the first place. As Paul put it it’s like a Mk1 plus. Since this is my everyday car I also wanted it to cruise well on the motorway, be quiet and return decent mpg. I’m pleased to say due to the standard MK2 backbox, standard Mk1 intake and 6th gear it does indeed cruise more quietly than the standard Mk1 and returns about 40mpg at a steady 70 - 80mph. Handling wise due to the LSD this has improved immensely and in the wet I’m now able to hang the rear out around roundabouts and hold it there on the power in a lovely drift. The 2ZZ engine is very light being all alloy and is lighter than the original iron block 4AGE, this has cancelled out the weight of the extra (6th) gear and has maintained the great balance of the standard Mk1 MR2. Paul fitted a full set of poly bushes for me so next week I’ll have the car fully aligned to the TRD settings which should hopefully sharpen the initial turn in a little. Other than that I may experiment with drilling out the poly engine mounts slightly since at the moment there is a little too much vibration at tick-over due to the ridged nature of the mounts.
Overall though as you’ve probably guessed I’m delighted with this conversion… hats off to Paul at Woodsport for not only creating it but also the backup he’s given me since.

Woodsport
31st October 2010, 10:46 AM
Many thanks for the superb write up Mark, and good to see that the initial teething problems have been overcome, we got there in the end! (out of interest i'm currently fitting a 2zz into a Starlet and have done the same thing by making an exhaust manifold myself rather than rely on that Ebay stuff)

Hopefully we can catch up in future at a show or meet etc :+:

Padji1
21st December 2010, 04:18 PM
This looks like something I would be seriously interested in Mr. Woods. Given your prior experience in this swap, what sort of money would you now be looking at to complete this work?

Could you do me rough price on the 2zz conversion plus the 6 speed box and LSD? I also have a good 4-age engine that could be used as a trade in if required, less than 80k miles on the clock.

While it will be well into next year before I contemplate this conversion, a rough idea of the pennies and shillings required would be welcome! Also, what would the timeframe be?

Many thanks,
Paddy

Woodsport
21st December 2010, 06:13 PM
Hi Paddy, the donor Celica/Corollas seem to sell from £1000-£1800, so i can't give you an exact quote but at least you will know the ballpark.

The cost of the labour plus all other parts required comes to around £2500, that would include your LSD fitment into the 6 speed box.

So it could be done for as little as £3500 rising to £4300, just depends on the donor cost. Subtract around £600 if you don't want the LSD.

These prices are not totally set in stone, it really depends on the parts cost and what sort of spec you want from the build etc.

Thanks Paul.

Padji1
21st December 2010, 10:40 PM
Thanks for coming back Paul. Good to have an idea of where I am going in the next 12-18 months with my car.

In the meantime, I will keep a look out for any scrapped 2zz engines this side of the water, may help to bring the cost down.

Cheers,
Paddy

Woodsport
22nd December 2010, 07:08 AM
Absolutely, the cheaper the donor the better :+:

rexer200
2nd January 2011, 07:49 AM
I have a cheap donor for sale if anyone is interested in doing this conversion
http://www.mr2mk1club.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=6765

Here is a video I took of the clocks as its accelerating (on private land)
http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/rexer200/2zz%20mk1%20mr2/th_18072010023.jpg (http://s729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/rexer200/2zz%20mk1%20mr2/?action=view&current=18072010023.mp4)

This was an early video with fuel pressure set to 52psi so probably running very rich as it should be 44-50psi. I will use my Innovate A/F meter soon to set the fuel pressure so I reckon this'll release a few more BHP.

This is not a track car (I have a MK2 CRX track car) however I may take it to the Nurburgring soon to give it a bit of a test. If I do I'll be sure to get some video footage.

rexer200
2nd January 2011, 07:51 AM
I wanted to check power and A/F ratios so I got it rolling roaded the other day. Pleased to say that it A/F's were spot on despite guesstimate on FPR the 2ZZ ECU seems to have sorted it out. Peak power it made 156hp at the wheels which is about the book 190 at the fly. Above 6K there is a whistle believed to be the stock mk2 backbox being a bit restrictive, so possibly more to come in the future.

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/rexer200/2zz%20mk1%20mr2/th_30122010067.jpg (http://s729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/rexer200/2zz%20mk1%20mr2/?action=view&current=30122010067.mp4)

Woodsport
2nd January 2011, 07:57 PM
Great stuff Mark, oh i sent you a PM on the OC, did you get it?

rexer200
3rd January 2011, 07:03 AM
Great stuff Mark, oh i sent you a PM on the OC, did you get it?
Hi Paul, I missed that PM, however just sent you a reply.

ArildM
25th April 2011, 02:21 PM
Hi Paul, still saving up money here 8-)
Just a quick question, do you recon it would be possible to fit a Rotrex charger to the 2ZZ engine without modifying the engine bay?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs8DliECVM

The Rotrex charger seems to make the Mk3 bloody damn fast. (0-100kmt in ~4,5-5 seconds)
(105mm pulley and peaking 0.67bar at 8200rpm = 325 Crank HP)

Woodsport
25th April 2011, 05:17 PM
I'm afraid i couldn't really say, i think it "might" fit but it's one of those i'd need to suck it and see jobs.

Woodsport
3rd January 2013, 08:04 AM
Just a quick note to say i have a Supercharged 2zz engine package coming here in about 4-5 weeks time, these are extremely rare, and it won't hang around for more than a few days before someone snaps it up. The engine package is being offered as a full conversion by me only and not as just an engine for sale.

If you're interested in owning a MK1 2zz supercharger with 6 speed gearbox drop me a PM, thanks Paul.