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View Full Version : Super Charger Super Edition..63,000 miles.



rockinhorse
5th August 2011, 08:55 PM
just wondered what the general mark 1 view was on the value of my beloved.. the time will come probally sooner than later that i will need to sell her on, wont go into the reasons just yet but i will speak to my guys at our next meet.full history taxed and mot,d I state...Completely original..no mods ,no tinkering. no boy race stuff..every switch knob, handle hose ect perfect.. interior as new.. price options or suggestions welcome.. no doubt it will amuse me no end..lol...many more photos available by searching the northern ireland sub-forum and viewing our meets and run pictures..

kevin..in
5th August 2011, 09:17 PM
if were talking biscuits i can bring Jaffa cakes 2 boxes and some custard creams, sensibly just as the world dips into the pit of financial oblivion i doubt there will be too many risking the kind of cash it should be worth

superwhite90
6th August 2011, 12:39 AM
3000-4000

coanda
6th August 2011, 12:54 AM
Hopefully 4kish. Condition is, of course, everything.

feegle
6th August 2011, 07:24 PM
Hi,
I am currently in the market for that "special" mk1 for myself, looked at loads but no luck yet. Could you pm me if you do decide to sell please. I have tried to pm you but your inbox is full.

MR2MK1
6th August 2011, 07:44 PM
just wondered what the general mark 1 view was on the value of my beloved.. the time will come probally sooner than later that i will need to sell her on, wont go into the reasons just yet but i will speak to my guys at our next meet.full history taxed and mot,d I state...Completely original..no mods ,no tinkering. no boy race stuff..every switch knob, handle hose ect perfect.. interior as new.. price options or suggestions welcome.. no doubt it will amuse me no end..lol...

Ronnie, you selling up ?

rockinhorse
10th August 2011, 04:51 PM
i have now cleared my inbox i think, so any serious interested folk can pm with any questions ect. i would rather someone from the club take an interest rather than the rabble from other well know car sales sites, as some of the guys have said no climate is good at the minute for classic car owners, over here especially but there is always a buyer as i myself did with this rare mark 1.

feegle
10th August 2011, 08:02 PM
Could you pm me if/when you decide to sell for definate, if you could include the price you decide on to. Thanks

coverco
15th August 2011, 07:33 PM
I know how much Mark paid for this car at Tatton Park a few years ago and it was no where near 4000. Have you sorted the rust around the rear corners yet?

As Kevin has said now is not a great time for selling specialty cars, so the car is worth what someone will pay for it. Good luck with the sale.

rockinhorse
16th August 2011, 07:33 PM
when i brought this car home it went straight to a local bodywork expert who repaired the rear valance and tidyied the front spoiler,futhermore the rest of the car is "rust" free, the first uk owner had fully undersealed the car in 1998, the first 9 years of its life having been spent in japans climate have given it a head start on uk na models regarding "rust" i would suggest viewing highly recommended.As far as i am aware there are no other super editions in this condition and maybe its "no where near" suggestion values, so possibly buyers might be better buying a uk na model which has had extensive repairs and bodywork done to have them presentable to the eye, i have had mine up on tele lift every year before mot and the sound under condition is impressive, again viewing highly recommened which i can provide.the mark 1 market is there to be searched and viewed maybe others know more about values and rust than me..i know what i have and what a reaonable value should be, this is my 4th mark 1 over the last 20 years, good luck finding your special one..

MR2MK1
16th August 2011, 08:50 PM
H all
I know this car very well and would vouch for it to anyone,Ronnie attends most of our events over here in N Ireland /Ireland .The car is rust free and in tip top condition and is very well looked after by him .I dont know what Coverco is getting at with his comment about the rust and him knowing what the previous owner paid for the car , I think he should view the car in its current condition before making asumptions .
Colin
LAO
Ireland

Fab4mr2
20th August 2011, 03:09 AM
Beautiful car!. If the rust has been handled it should easily be worth the 4k, especially as it appears to have all the original SE parts, such as the steering wheel and shift knob, which are usually long gone by now. Seats look to be in great condition as well.

Pity it is in the Ire/GB area, as it would easily sell for far more elsewhere. GLWS!

I'd love to see more pics of it if possible.

rockinhorse
20th August 2011, 01:57 PM
thanks for the comments fab4mr2, well noticed 100% original.. you should be able to see lots more photos if you look up the northern ireland/ireland sub area forums and check out the pictures of our meets and runs...you can export if you wish..lol...

scoobyblue
20th August 2011, 02:06 PM
i would also like to add that i have seen the car in the flesh as it were and it is in great condition, but i am sure anyone interested would be welcome to give it a thorough check . just hope ronnie cleans out the burnt sausages from around the manifold lol

Fab4mr2
20th August 2011, 10:29 PM
As for the asking price, there is an '89 SE for sale down under, asking more than $14k AUS. Maybe want to export yours, lol. And theirs is not even as good of condition, as it has been resprayed, not necessarily in the same exact color from what i could see, plus the original steering wheel and shift knob were long gone. If I had the money i would import yours in a heartbeat, and just hang on to it. There is only one SE in North America that I know of, up in Canada. It is in very good condition, and was sold back to the original importer recently for very good money. Definitely more than 4k pounds, lol.

coverco
22nd August 2011, 05:58 PM
H all
I dont know what Coverco is getting at with his comment about the rust and him knowing what the previous owner paid for the car , I think he should view the car in its current condition before making asumptions .


Here is a link to the sale thread from 2009 where you can see what the rear was like. If it has been repaired properly it should last for quite a few years. I was with Mark and Lauren at Tatton at the weekend and they were really surprised to hear you were selling :eek:

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=116981

5705
26th August 2011, 09:45 AM
Hi - just joined and am interested in this car. But I cannot open the attachments (I get some message about not having the right permissions). Could somebody do whatever's necessary to post the photos in this thread?

Monkeymax
26th August 2011, 10:17 AM
5705: You should be able to now. :+:

5705
26th August 2011, 12:24 PM
Excellent - thanks for that, MM.

Just waiting for the OP to read his PMs now... :)

alpha13
1st September 2011, 10:30 AM
ok just to add. i have seen this car first hand and know this car and ronnie. and let me tell you that car is looked after better any mk1 could hope for....
next of... ronnie how come your parting with the car????? that is a serious shock to the system...

charged
1st September 2011, 11:46 AM
I know how much Mark paid for this car at Tatton Park a few years ago and it was no where near 4000.

What someone paid for the car a 'few years ago' is completely irrelevant.

alpha13
2nd September 2011, 08:10 AM
What someone paid for the car a 'few years ago' is completely irrelevant.

you are dead right charged....especially with the condition and the care that goes and has gone into the car since ronnie got it...
you get what you pay for with these cars!!
whoever gets this car will be very very very lucky!

charged
2nd September 2011, 09:11 AM
Worth every penny imo, I'd snap it up in a flash if I didn't already have 5 mk1's and a hideous Mk2..

alpha13
2nd September 2011, 04:06 PM
i agree.. i would snap it up if i had somewhere to store it that wasnt outside in the open....would borrow money to get the car if i had somewhere to store it.
definately worth the money. both in terms of the condition of the car and the history and type of mk1

5705
2nd September 2011, 08:00 PM
whoever gets this car will be very very very lucky!

That'll be me then. Just got to organise the shipping and transfer the balance. :)

There's an empty garage just waiting (X1/9 went a couple of months ago, while I decided what to get)

(Ronnie's been a star to deal with, BTW.)

kevin..in
2nd September 2011, 08:13 PM
5705? but there's no reply, got myself just one more dime, will the operator hold the line?
good purchase there city boy!

scoobyblue
2nd September 2011, 08:29 PM
well , the burning question is how much and what now ronnie?

Fab4mr2
2nd September 2011, 11:19 PM
Congratulations, and please take good care of it!:)

charged
3rd September 2011, 09:26 AM
Congratulations on your purchase! Look after her please!

5705
3rd September 2011, 09:42 AM
Thanks chaps. :)


Congratulations, and please take good care of it!:)

I certainly will! There's a garage with dehumidifier all ready and waiting. Few small areas that Ronnie's mentioned that I'll probably get treated before Winter. Before then (hopefully) I'll get some decent bright Autumn days to enjoy on the B roads. :)

For next year, about the only modification I'll be thinking about at is the SC pulley swap that I've seen mentioned here and there. Although, it's not so much about Vmax for me, and I may be happy with standard power.

charged
3rd September 2011, 11:38 AM
about the only modification I'll be thinking about at is the SC pulley swap that I've seen mentioned here and there. Although, it's not so much about Vmax for me, and I may be happy with standard power.

It's a good mod, very cheap way of releasing 30 odd BHP.. Just make sure it is done right, I had someone fit a pulley to one of my old sc's and the pulley wobbled off and damaged the end of the crank.. not good!

Fab4mr2
3rd September 2011, 11:41 AM
One of the main things you might want to think about at this point is maintaining the SE specific parts that came on the car, such as the Recaro seats, door cards, Momo steering wheel, Momo shift knob, mirrored t-tops, and retracting mirrors. Those are what really make the car unique, and valuable over the long term. Depending upon their current state of wear you might even consider pulling off the steering wheel and shift knob, and storing them, as they are high wear items and cannot be replaced. Having those in the future, along with the other unique parts, will really help maintain its value, and would be nice to pull out for special events. And if you do change stuff like the crank pulley, save the original parts, as they all add up if you later consider selling it. And pulllleeaaassssssee don't modify things that can't be changed back easily, like the guy who turned his into a MK1.5. Forgive me for preaching, lol, but these are a special car, and there are very few left in decent condition.

scoobyblue
3rd September 2011, 12:27 PM
One of the main things you might want to think about at this point is maintaining the SE specific parts that came on the car, such as the Recaro seats, door cards, Momo steering wheel, Momo shift knob, mirrored t-tops, and retracting mirrors. Those are what really make the car unique, and valuable over the long term. Depending upon their current state of wear you might even consider pulling off the steering wheel and shift knob, and storing them, as they are high wear items and cannot be replaced. Having those in the future, along with the other unique parts, will really help maintain its value, and would be nice to pull out for special events. And if you do change stuff like the crank pulley, save the original parts, as they all add up if you later consider selling it. And pulllleeaaassssssee don't modify things that can't be changed back easily, like the guy who turned his into a MK1.5. Forgive me for preaching, lol, but these are a special car, and there are very few left in decent condition.

well said that man , if you play it right you could end up with a major investment there ten years down the line.

5705
3rd September 2011, 04:12 PM
Don't worry guys, I'm on the same page. :) I have restored some mods on vintage guitars so I know the pitfalls ($2000 for a 2" disc of cream plastic!)

There will be no irreversible changes on this SE, and if any rare SE bits look vulnerable, I'll look after them.

alpha13
5th September 2011, 12:07 PM
well congratulations 5705...you will be well happy with your new car, that i can be sure of...be sad to lose it from the runs this side...have a few nice pics from the rear view mirror on the runs...and it just looks awesome sorta like a bit of a K.I.T.T LOL :) :).
enjoy it and look after it well...sure you will :D

5705
5th September 2011, 02:12 PM
Thanks. Will be calling Ronnie tonight to finalise the shipping arrangements. Hope there's enough Summer left that I can get out for an East Anglia run! :)

rockinhorse
5th September 2011, 07:12 PM
thanks to all my friends and fellow mark 1 owners for all their kind remarks and comments, i have not arrived at the decision to sell my super edition easily but my cicumstances have forced my decision somewhat.. i have been keeping posts to a minium because of certain remarks as i didnt want to show my anger on an open forum. i will however post my feelings when more important matters have been attended to..thanks again colin, pat, mark , fab4mr2, charged, and all others i have been in contact with on the site.. be posting again soon.. good luck all..

Fab4mr2
5th September 2011, 07:34 PM
Best of luck! I know it can't be easy letting a great car like that go.

alpha13
6th September 2011, 09:22 AM
i know it was not an easy decesion for you ronnie...just a pity you had to make it at all.... as for comments made by people on here annoying you... ignorance and stupidity are just that ronnie....you cant get worked up because of their twatness LOL :) :)

coverco
6th September 2011, 10:02 AM
ignorance and stupidity are just that ronnie....you cant get worked up because of their twatness LOL :) :)

What an incredibly mature post. The last time I saw this car it was far from Super, now perhaps the car has received some work but I think it is fair to let potential buyers be aware of the history. I hope the new buyer is very happy with their purchase and the car has been properly repaired.

In my opinion the Super Edition is really only a Supercharger with a few bits added so is only worth the price of a Supercharger in the same condition but that is only my opinion. As I said before I hope 5705 is very happy with the car and I expect they will let us know once it arrives back on the mainland :+:

coverco
6th September 2011, 10:57 AM
i have been keeping posts to a minium because of certain remarks as i didnt want to show my anger on an open forum. i will however post my feelings when more important matters have been attended to..thanks again colin, pat, mark , fab4mr2, charged, and all others i have been in contact with on the site.. be posting again soon.. good luck all..

So revealing the history of this car to potential buyers made you angry, why would that be? Or was it the fact I thought 4000 was a bit optimistic as a valuation, am I not allowed an opinion? If I was going to buy a car like this I would want to know as much of the history as I could, luckily I don't need to buy a MK1 as I already have one which is in excellent condition, it is not original but all the major panels have been replaced. The new buyer needs to know that this car will probably need more work over the years because once rust starts it is hard to get rid off.

alpha13
6th September 2011, 03:15 PM
What an incredibly mature post. The last time I saw this car it was far from Super, now perhaps the car has received some work but I think it is fair to let potential buyers be aware of the history. I hope the new buyer is very happy with their purchase and the car has been properly repaired.

In my opinion the Super Edition is really only a Supercharger with a few bits added so is only worth the price of a Supercharger in the same condition but that is only my opinion. As I said before I hope 5705 is very happy with the car and I expect they will let us know once it arrives back on the mainland :+:

exactly!! the last time... any person who has any cop on in regards the mk1 will know what to look for on the car and check..especially if they are a member on here..as for super edition being JUST a supercharger with a few bits extra...cop on you fool...they are the final run of a limited edition....which are even rarer now than ever..that hardly classes as being JUST another super charger.... and as regards my maturity... i am clearly more mature than you who does nothing but make stupid comments on things that have nothing to do with you just to have a row...like the whole membership issue and jinxy tech items...if you have nothing nice or positive to say...keep your mouth shut!!! none of us would like someone talking down our cars...especially when they know nothing about it and what it is like now!!!

coverco
6th September 2011, 04:14 PM
OK then I guess I must know nothing about MK1's and have not seen the car since 2009 when it was in quite a poor state. I am sorry but my first language is English so I am unsure why you keep referring to policemen randomly in your post. The Super Edition was a special edition made at the end of the life of the MK1 not "the final run of a limited edition". The extras were all bolt on and can be bought by anyone, the seats were even used in the Toyota Landcruiser I think, if you want Special Edition stickers for the rear visor or the side of the car I can supply them and Momo steering wheels and gear knobs are easily bought so they are really not that special.

As to the membership issue my comments have been acted on and now we can become internet only members. I stand by my comments on the previous condition of the car and I hope if I was going to buy a car on a forum that members with knowledge of that car would inform me of the history, instead of all the owners friends and acquaintances from Northern and Southern Ireland saying it is completely rust free and immaculate. It may indeed be rust free however that is for the future owner to decide and all information is useful from a prospective buyers point of view. The only person having a row is you and to say "if you have nothing nice or positive to say...keep your mouth shut!!!" just goes to prove my maturity point. :p

charged
6th September 2011, 04:52 PM
OK then I guess I must know nothing about MK1's and have not seen the car since 2009 when it was in quite a poor state. I am sorry but my first language is English so I am unsure why you keep referring to policemen randomly in your post. The Super Edition was a special edition made at the end of the life of the MK1 not "the final run of a limited edition". The extras were all bolt on and can be bought by anyone, the seats were even used in the Toyota Landcruiser I think, if you want Special Edition stickers for the rear visor or the side of the car I can supply them and Momo steering wheels and gear knobs are easily bought so they are really not that special.

As to the membership issue my comments have been acted on and now we can become internet only members. I stand by my comments on the previous condition of the car and I hope if I was going to buy a car on a forum that members with knowledge of that car would inform me of the history, instead of all the owners friends and acquaintances from Northern and Southern Ireland saying it is completely rust free and immaculate. It may indeed be rust free however that is for the future owner to decide and all information is useful from a prospective buyers point of view. The only person having a row is you and to say "if you have nothing nice or positive to say...keep your mouth shut!!!" just goes to prove my maturity point. :p

Perhaps Tommy you could have aired your views in a more constructive/polite way.. this way you wouldn't have wound several members up. If you were selling your own car, how would you feel if someone came on to your forsale thread in the fashion you have done on this? Think before you type, you may have a valid point but boy do you go about it the wrong way.

MR2MK1
6th September 2011, 05:20 PM
Coverco
Mark has a point you have been negative since Ronnie put his car on the market, the car has to be judged on the condition it is in today not the last time you saw it .Yes you are entitled to your opinion as we all are but why try and devalue somebody elses car, suerly this is up to the buyer to decide on not for you, by doing this you are taking the excitement and joy of obtaining such an example of a rare MK1 away from the buyer also I feel you tried to portray Ronnie as if he was trying to sell on a rust bucket and a sub standard car for far more than the car was worth. This car is in great condition and will be the envy of any true MK1 enthusiast
In MY OPINION if you have nothing constructive or helpful to say why would you say anything.

Colin
LAO
Ireland

Fab4mr2
6th September 2011, 05:23 PM
As usual it is not always so much what one decides to say on a forum thread, but how one goes about saying it. In my opinion you (coverco) were a bit rude to start with. You decided that the seller was guilty of trying to pull a fast one on somebody, and therefore condemned them before even discussing the condition of the car with them privately.

Even after the current condition seemed to be clarified you have continued to disparage the car, and in doing so the owner, and in my opinion greatly exaggerated its past and current condition, for the worse.

You have every right to your opinion, but where and how it is expressed is another matter. You apparently are not overly impressed with Super Editions to start with, and think of them as just another car. Considering your lowly opinion of them I am a bit surprised that you even own a MKI.

As for your comments regarding the SE's unique parts, they are a bit more than just everyday bolt-on parts that everyone can get I am afraid. None of those exact parts can be ordered from Toyota, or anywhere else today, and finding any of them in really good nick is extremely difficult, and extremely expensive.

Yes, the seats were used in other cars, but they do have completely unique oem style seat rails on them that I would die to have, and were only made for the 270 '89 SE's that were manufactured. Also, those seats in that condition today are very expensive, even without such unique seat rails, and very hard to find.

The door cards were completely unique to the SE, and I have only come across one set, in mediocre condition, come up for sale in the last several years, and they were far from cheap.

The exact steering wheel and shift knob are at the very least unique to the time period, and I believe were only used for the SE, and perhaps one or two other cars, if that. They also are rarely available, and ungodly expensive, even in mediocre condition. A set on YJ earlier this year went for around $700-800, and they were not exactly pristine.

The mirrored t-tops were actually an option for all '89 MKI's, but finding a pair whose seals have not been abused, or the mirrored surfaces not scratched up is quite hard to do. The retracting mirrors were also an option for all '89 MKI's, but the fact that that they were dye colored, and that the SE ones were done in a completely unique color makes them quite rare and expensive. I actually have a set of them that I bought from a guy in Hong Kong who was parting a wrecked SE, and it pains me a bit to think about painting them to match the color of my car.

The SE also came with mirrored teardrop wheels. These were also available as an option the last year. The teardops were painted differently than those on the non-mirrored versions.

The SE also came with what became later on the rather rare and very sought after auto/ac system that originally came on the '85 MKI's before Toyota started getting a bit cheap, when the Yen went through the roof soon after these were first produced. It is comprised of much more than a simple set of sliders and knobs, and cannot be duplicated without an awful lot of work and expense. I had a new '85 and can attest that it was a far superior system to that used soon after on all the other MKI's. It was thereafter offered only with a special option package on jdm MKI's. I am not sure that it was ever available on any non-jdm cars after that, as it certainly was not offered on any US models.

The so-called simple things that you so quickly disparaged are also significantly more in number and and in rare configuration than say those on many rather unique, and very expensive collector cars. Often it has only been the matter of a part or two that has set them apart from their nearly identical brethern.

coverco
6th September 2011, 06:11 PM
Here is my original post


I know how much Mark paid for this car at Tatton Park a few years ago and it was no where near 4000. Have you sorted the rust around the rear corners yet?

As Kevin has said now is not a great time for selling specialty cars, so the car is worth what someone will pay for it. Good luck with the sale.

and my second


Here is a link to the sale thread from 2009 where you can see what the rear was like. If it has been repaired properly it should last for quite a few years. I was with Mark and Lauren at Tatton at the weekend and they were really surprised to hear you were selling :eek:

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=116981


If you think this is being negative or impolite then you really need to get out more. What in those posts is untrue or impolite for that matter, the car was indeed rusting quite badly round the rear quarters (look at the pictures) and had numerous dents and car park scratches.

Now the seller states the car is


Completely original..no mods ,no tinkering. no boy race stuff..every switch knob, handle hose ect perfect.. interior as new..

However they fail to mention (until I pointed it out) the car has had quite a bit of bodywork/spraying done to it, so would you as a potential buyer not wish to know that? I am afraid I am too long in the tooth to get excited about a car with a few bolt on extras (the seats out of a Landcruiser will accept MK1 seat rails if you drill out the rivets so they are not that special) and polished tear drops are not special we could all do that with our wheels if we were of a mind to.

This is all academic now as the new buyer has bought the car, if there is a problem I am sure they will let us know, but I am afraid saying a car is completely original that has had a fair bit of bodywork is just not right. Perhaps if you all remove your rose tinted glasses you will see that ;)

5705
6th September 2011, 06:45 PM
Coverco - I'm only going to answer one point you've raised: how special or not is the Super Edition. I'm going to answer it by comparison. Go and buy a Mercedes 190E 2.5-16. Bolt on as many Evo II extras as you want. You will have an Evo II replica. Now try and get Evo II money for it. Fact is that if it never left the factory as a Evo II it will never be an Evo II.

I believe the same is true - to a lesser extent in terms of S - of the Mk1 NA/SC/SE. Turn an NA/SC into a SE replica and you will not get SE money.

MR2MK1
6th September 2011, 07:06 PM
Coverco why dont you just dry up cant you see we are all fed up with you:thumbdown:

scoobyblue
6th September 2011, 08:00 PM
"instead of all the owners friends and acquaintances from Northern and Southern Ireland saying it is completely rust free and immaculate." coverco

i would have thought that it would be obvious that it would be us lot who had most contact with the car since it is owned and attends meets over here, so if the insinuation is that we are are all sticking together in some sort of misplaced loyalty , you are completely out of order and i would personally want to know if you are just having a bad day or are you generally that paranoid and suspicious. i have no desire to see a witch hunt but as the saying goes, when you have dug a hole that deep you really should stop digging otherwise you might never get out.hopefully this is the last of this episode and peace can once more return to the sleepy hollow of mk1mr2ville

coverco
7th September 2011, 08:19 AM
Coverco why dont you just dry up cant you see we are all fed up with you:thumbdown:

I am guessing you did not go to Regent House with punctuation like that? Anyway as far as I was aware free speech was still alive and well, obviously not in the province :p


Coverco - I'm only going to answer one point you've raised: how special or not is the Super Edition. I'm going to answer it by comparison. Go and buy a Mercedes 190E 2.5-16. Bolt on as many Evo II extras as you want. You will have an Evo II replica. Now try and get Evo II money for it. Fact is that if it never left the factory as a Evo II it will never be an Evo II.

I believe the same is true - to a lesser extent in terms of S - of the Mk1 NA/SC/SE. Turn an NA/SC into a SE replica and you will not get SE money.

I am sorry but I know nothing about Mercedes or Evo II, but a quick google tells me the EVO II has about 30bhp more than standard. A Super Edition and a standard supercharger have exactly the same performance so your analogy is not very useful. The only difference is bolt on extras, perhaps you should stick a set of furry dice in your car I have never seen these in a MK1 so you could have a Super Duper Edition :D
That was a joke by the way I hope you are very happy with your car but believe me it is just a normal supercharger with bolt ons.



i would have thought that it would be obvious that it would be us lot who had most contact with the car since it is owned and attends meets over here, so if the insinuation is that we are are all sticking together in some sort of misplaced loyalty , you are completely out of order and i would personally want to know if you are just having a bad day or are you generally that paranoid and suspicious. i have no desire to see a witch hunt but as the saying goes, when you have dug a hole that deep you really should stop digging otherwise you might never get out.hopefully this is the last of this episode and peace can once more return to the sleepy hollow of mk1mr2ville

I am having a very good day thank you, although it appears I am the only one. I realise the current condition of the car is known best by the members in Ireland, however no one seems to be able to answer my question about whether I was right to inform potential new owners of the history of the car. The fact that the seller stated the car was completely original was in my opinion a bit misleading. If you were going to buy a second hand car would you not like to know the history good and bad? As no one has even addressed this point I must assume that non disclosure is standard practice on the other side of the water and anyone who disagrees with that practice will be told to shut up as free speech is also not accepted :eek:

It would appear the only holes being dug are on the emerald isle :D

alpha13
7th September 2011, 08:37 AM
Coverco - I'm only going to answer one point you've raised: how special or not is the Super Edition. I'm going to answer it by comparison. Go and buy a Mercedes 190E 2.5-16. Bolt on as many Evo II extras as you want. You will have an Evo II replica. Now try and get Evo II money for it. Fact is that if it never left the factory as a Evo II it will never be an Evo II.

I believe the same is true - to a lesser extent in terms of S - of the Mk1 NA/SC/SE. Turn an NA/SC into a SE replica and you will not get SE money.

exactly!!! no amount of putting parts on a mk1 will make it a genuine super edition...that is what makes it special... and i am certain that you 5705 will truly enjoy the car and appreciate what you have... i am sure all of us over here wish you the very best with it and long years of enjoyment with it...and hopefully sometime you will get to bring it home for a run or something over here :D :) :)
as for you coverco.... in your own words"If I was going to buy a car like this I would want to know as much of the history as I could, luckily I don't need to buy a MK1 as I already have one which is in excellent condition,"
i am fairly certain that if you were selling your "EXCELLENT CONDITION" mk1 and someone started making out it was a rust bucket you would be pissed off and annoyed. by all means the person buying the car should have as much info as possible...but that is for them to check out and ask...not for you to volunteer when you dont know about the car now.... the car has been restored! but that does not make it less original...

5705
7th September 2011, 08:56 AM
I am sorry but I know nothing about Mercedes or Evo II, but a quick google tells me the EVO II has about 30bhp more than standard.


Er... the Evo II's extra power is simply a camshaft change. A bolt-on extra that will still not make a 2.5-16 into an Evo II.

coverco
7th September 2011, 09:07 AM
exactly!!! no amount of putting parts on a mk1 will make it a genuine super edition...that is what makes it special... and i am certain that you 5705 will truly enjoy the car and appreciate what you have... i am sure all of us over here wish you the very best with it and long years of enjoyment with it...and hopefully sometime you will get to bring it home for a run or something over here :D :) :)


Unbelievable, am I speaking a different language :eek:

The analogy was a Mercedes 190E and an Evo II which has 30 bhp more. What exactly is "SUPER" about a Super Edition apart from bolt on bits. If you put all the bits on a normal supecharger it may not be genuine but it will be the same so what is so special?

I realise you guys seem to have trouble reading so I will try to explain in simple words. At no point did I say the car was a rust bucket but it did have some quite bad rust on the rear quarters as the pictures showed. To describe this as "completely original" is at best a stretch of the truth.


Er... the Evo II's extra power is simply a camshaft change. A bolt-on extra that will still not make a 2.5-16 into an Evo II.

I really could not care less about Mercedes but you introduced the ridiculous analogy to the discussion. The Super Edition is a standard supercharger with different paint and bolt on extras, it has the same performance as a standard supercharger so is not Super performance wise and that is where the difference really counts in your original analogy. You have now purchased the car so if it makes you happy to think of it as Super then you are quite within your rights to think that way, those of us who know about the MK1 will realise it is no faster or better at going round corners than a standard supercharger but will be very impressed by the Recaro seats :p

alpha13
7th September 2011, 09:24 AM
a mk1 is special not just because of the performance and power!!! and as you put it.."those of us that know the mk1" will apreciate it for what it is... a LIMITED edition and therfore special...they may be bolt on bits..but they are factory fitted just to those cars originally..not aftermarket or add on or that... i could but the mirror alloys and the rest on my early sc all i want.. but it will never be a super edition now matter how much i might try and make it that... you said it yourself..there was only 270 of them made!!!
your comments are far from what i would consider normal to come from a TRUE mk1 enthusiast!

charged
7th September 2011, 09:33 AM
I'm laughing at Tommy now, feel a bit sorry for him to be honest.. he has a few peope disagreeing with him but still decides to carry on with his pointless arguement, I assume in an attempt to belittle those who have replied.. I dont think it's working Tommy, in fact I now think you are more of a pratt than I did before. You've been rude from start to finish, surely you can recognise that is why you've recived the replies you have. I think you just need to learn to present your views in a better way.. I'm pretty confident that if this was a face to face discussion and you were saying what you type , someone would have punched you in the face by now ; )

Shot any cats in your back garden recently by the way?

Ollie : )

scoobyblue
7th September 2011, 09:42 AM
I'm laughing at Tommy now, feel a bit sorry for him to be honest.. he has a few peope disagreeing with him but still decides to carry on with his pointless arguement, I assume in an attempt to belittle those who have replied.. I dont think it's working Tommy, in fact I now think you are more of a pratt than I did before. You've been rude from start to finish, surely you can recognise that is why you've recived the replies you have. I think you just need to learn to present your views in a better way.. I'm pretty confident that if this was a face to face discussion and you were saying what you type , someone would have punched you in the face by now ; )

Shot any cats in your back garden recently by the way?

Ollie : )
they wouldnt have been irish cats by any chance:(

MR2MK1
7th September 2011, 11:17 AM
Coverco
Thanks once again for your kind words of wisdom and the friendly remarks towards all the other club members on this thread.
We all understand that you have a large chip on your shoulder and fully sympathise with you, i am sure you will get the treatment you need.:crazy:

To all the rest of you I think it is time to ignore this imbecile and give him the fools pardon he deserves.

By the way Coverco I heard the sun was out the day you left Newtownards and went to England :+:

Sorry England for loading this guy on you .

coverco
7th September 2011, 11:40 AM
I'm laughing at Tommy now, feel a bit sorry for him to be honest.. he has a few peope disagreeing with him but still decides to carry on with his pointless arguement, I assume in an attempt to belittle those who have replied.. I dont think it's working Tommy, in fact I now think you are more of a pratt than I did before. You've been rude from start to finish, surely you can recognise that is why you've recived the replies you have. I think you just need to learn to present your views in a better way.. I'm pretty confident that if this was a face to face discussion and you were saying what you type , someone would have punched you in the face by now ; )

Shot any cats in your back garden recently by the way?

Ollie : )

Well Ollie that is interesting, you say I have been rude from start to finish, please show me where I have been rude. I know it is easy to make sweeping generalisations and threaten violence but it really is not big and clever you know. If we were face to face I would be quite happy to present my views and argument in exactly the same way and would of course be happy to accept that not everyone would agree with me.

Everyone seems to be avoiding the simple question that I have asked numerous times, do you all really think it is reasonable to say that a car is completely original when it has had bodywork and spraying done to it? If you really think that that is reasonable then I would never want to buy a car from you.

The fact that I hate cats is really not relevant to the discussion but I suppose it helps you side step the question above. The fact that I personally don't think the Super Edition is very Super is of little consequence as it is only my opinion which is based on cold hard facts, which is that the Super Edition performs and handles the same as a standard supercharger and is deemed super due to a few bolt on bits. If you really want a Super Edition put a 3sgte in the back of a standard MK1 and I will accept that that is super, adding some seats and stickers does not in my opinion make a car super :+:

ps prat only has one t in it, I thought you would know that :D

alpha13
7th September 2011, 04:07 PM
Everyone seems to be avoiding the simple question that I have asked numerous times, do you all really think it is reasonable to say that a car is completely original when it has had bodywork and spraying done to it? If you really think that that is reasonable then I would never want to buy a car from you.
:D
well in all fairness tommy...by that definition there is no such thing as a totally original mk1! as at some point all of them would have had work done on them. but most people would realise that it is meant in the context that the car is the same setup and condition as it would have been, with no mods or things to change the car... so yes if a car had had bodywork done to it...and done properly and it was done for RESTORATION purposes and not crash or other such items then it would be reasonable to say it is original. i think we can credit a mk1 enthusiast with a fairly descent level of intelligence and as such be able to realise the context original condition is meant as.... after all! they do like the mk1 dont they lol:D :D

coverco
7th September 2011, 04:33 PM
I have in truth only seen two cars that were totally original, one was the light blue one that came from Monty's of Sheffield with 35 miles on the clock and the other is owned by Ali a woman who brings her car to Tatton every year, this car however is in poor condition but she has owned it from new and it has around 200000 miles on the clock I think.

My car has had nearly every panel replaced all from Toyota including full rear quarters but I would never describe it as totally original. My crime if you want to call it that was pointing out that this Super Edition had been quite rusty around the back end, I then said if it had been repaired properly it should last quite a few years, I also wished the seller good luck with the sale. Now if that is being rude or negative then I am at a loss to understand why. My opinion that the Super Edition is not that super is my opinion, however this was only expressed after the sale was completed.

As I have said if I was buying a car and someone gave me pictorial history of the car I would be very grateful, in the future perhaps I should just not bother and let the buyer beware. Personally that is what I thought clubs like this were for, I am sure Kateg28 would have loved to have been informed about the rust on the car she bought from Southern Ireland, if I had known I would have told her. An honest seller should have no fear of the history of their car being revealed :D

Amazingly this thread has had over 2500 views and not one person has agreed that I should have revealed the history of the car to potential buyers. I am afraid this casts a very poor light on MK1 club members. I have been told to shut up, not say anything if it is not nice, and the best of all

as for comments made by people on here annoying you... ignorance and stupidity are just that ronnie....you cant get worked up because of their twatness LOL :) :)

It really does not paint a very good picture in my opinion :(

kevin..in
7th September 2011, 06:11 PM
Amazingly this thread has had over 2500 views and not one person has agreed that I should have revealed the history of the car to potetential buyer(

well I remember this car and its overall condition when last I saw it, (and am certain I have been told what it was bought for by a previous owner though this is irrelevant, sort of "you should have seen the bargains last week type of talk!") but as I have not seen it in its present "refurbed" state I chose not to comment
as for SE's not being that super or special I would have to agree with Tommy nothing too great about them other than their limited numbers, if one turned up for the right money with all the right equipment would I wan't it? you betcha!
am I jealous of SE owners? nope no at all, am I embarrased by this threads continuation on a public forum in the name of the club that I am a proud member/supporter of? accutely
am I disgusted that it hadn't been locked/deleted before we got to personal abuse and now bad language, both of which are against club rules/etiquette YES
mmmm Irish fellas aruing over nowt, give it up now!

phaeton
7th September 2011, 06:25 PM
Completely original..no mods ,no tinkering. no boy race stuff..every switch knob, handle hose ect perfect.. interior as new..

Well here is a view that agrees with Coverco, that statement above is incorrect.

The car is not "Completely original", it has had bodywork done, "no boy racer stuff", it has Momo stuff

Now I hope the purchaser is very happy with the car & he got exactly what he wanted/expected, but the advert IS misleading.

Alan...

Fab4mr2
7th September 2011, 07:41 PM
Perhaps someone who has cast aspersions on the originality of this car could actually list all of what they consider as non-original on it, instead of bandying the term about in a rather useless and vague method (and please be precise). And perhaps they could enlighten us as to what automotive collectors standards they are referring to when using the term non-original. I have viewed an awful lot of collector car auctions, and I do not recall how a little bit of bodywork, and a bit of respray would have disqualified a car from being claimed all original.

And please enlighten me as to how factory included equipment, such as a Momo steering wheel and shift knob are considered boy racer equipment. That statement alone discredits just about anything else its originator might possibly have to offer.

My original objection, however, which 'coverco' has not addressed after I raised it earlier, is that if they truly felt that there were current car conditions that might devalue the car, and were not mentioned by the seller, then they should have had the decency to discuss the issue with the seller first instead of immediately taking it upon themselves to so self-righteously try and discredit him. Furthermore, 'coverco' has, in my opinion, continuously overstated the previous rust condition on the car. Yes, there was rust, but not in the locations or amounts that I would ever consider to be as dramatically significant as was stated, especially for the geographical location.

Additionally, 'coverco' seems not to have a very good grasp on just what makes a car unique, and therefore collectible. I also raised this issue earlier, and it has been brought up by others, but 'coverco' has chosen only to address it in a rather childish manner. Simply go to, or view, just about any collector car auction, see what has made various cars the valuable collector items that they are today, and one will readily see that the only difference between many of the most highly sought after cars, and all the others, often comes down to just a mere few factory installed parts or so, and quite often has absolutely nothing to do with horsepower.

And as for wanting to have this thread shut down/locked, I think that at least a few good points have been brought up that should be resolved, and would prove quite valuable for others when it comes to handling discussions like this in the future.

autobody
7th September 2011, 07:55 PM
I have not commented on this thread as I was a bit embarrassed of how it has all turned out.

The original post did not look like to me a for sale post, more like "what you think its worth" and I think the description was a bit misleading or vague in terms of not stating if any work had be carried out for a for sale post. I know kateg28 had a bad experience buying a SC. So I for one welcome suggestions, feedback, opinion etc… as it helps to clarify the condition of the car.

I do have a super edition (it needs quite some work) and I do feel people will always pay a bit more for owning a rare model. I used to own a limited edition Golf mk1 (Golf Rivage) and they do tend to sell a lot quicker and price a bit more than a standard Golf.

I hope the new owner all the best and am so jealous. One thing to remember, we are all one here to help each other out.

So no need for name calling and punching people etc..

Send a PM to who ever you got a problem. Always the best way

Also I cant see what all the fuse is about, a member asked if all rust issues had be sorted, seams fair to me

MR2MK1
7th September 2011, 08:35 PM
Maybe we should apply for the most viewed thread with the guinness book of records then we will have achived something good out of this:p 2628 so far .Can you all take out a full membership please.:+:

superwhite90
7th September 2011, 09:03 PM
I've just been reading this from start to finish and I'm so bored and you dont seem to recognise you are saying all this on a forum where potential mr2 owners can see. Its quite embarassing really. We want new members to join our friendly community not put them off because they think we cannot let things go and be childish and rude to each other. That's not the way it should work.

I expect I'll probably get moaned at for saying something honest and sensible but this is not the way to portray ourselves or the MR2 communuty on this website.

coverco
7th September 2011, 09:59 PM
Furthermore, 'coverco' has, in my opinion, continuously overstated the previous rust condition on the car. Yes, there was rust, but not in the locations or amounts that I would ever consider to be as dramatically significant as was stated, especially for the geographical location.

Additionally, 'coverco' seems not to have a very good grasp on just what makes a car unique, and therefore collectible. I also raised this issue earlier, and it has been brought up by others, but 'coverco' has chosen only to address it in a rather childish manner. Simply go to, or view, just about any collector car auction, see what has made various cars the valuable collector items that they are today, and one will readily see that the only difference between many of the most highly sought after cars, and all the others, often comes down to just a mere few factory installed parts or so, and quite often has absolutely nothing to do with horsepower.



I asked if the seller had sorted the rust and supplied a link to the 2009 for sale thread, I would not say I overstated the rust problem but you appear to think I did for some reason, perhaps because you have not read my posts correctly.

I have a very good grasp of what makes a car unique to me and the addition of a few bolt on extras does not do it for me sorry, if you think that disagreeing with you is childish so be it.


well I remember this car and its overall condition when last I saw it, (and am certain I have been told what it was bought for by a previous owner though this is irrelevant, sort of "you should have seen the bargains last week type of talk!") but as I have not seen it in its present "refurbed" state I chose not to comment


I never actually said how much Mark paid for the car but the original thread was a "how much is it worth" thread so price was relevant and 4000 is in my opinion too much.

Even though you knew the car was originally in quite used condition (I am being polite here) you did not want to comment to help out prospective buyers, to be honest that is quite dissappointing Kevin , no more free stickers for you sir :D

Fab4mr2
7th September 2011, 11:50 PM
I asked if the seller had sorted the rust and supplied a link to the 2009 for sale thread, I would not say I overstated the rust problem but you appear to think I did for some reason, perhaps because you have not read my posts correctly.

I have a very good grasp of what makes a car unique to me and the addition of a few bolt on extras does not do it for me sorry, if you think that disagreeing with you is childish so be it.


"The new buyer needs to know that this car will probably need more work over the years because once rust starts it is hard to get rid off."

"OK then I guess I must know nothing about MK1's and have not seen the car since 2009 when it was in quite a poor state."

"What in those posts is untrue or impolite for that matter, the car was indeed rusting quite badly round the rear quarters (look at the pictures) and had numerous dents and car park scratches.?"

"At no point did I say the car was a rust bucket but it did have some quite bad rust on the rear quarters as the pictures showed."

"However if I was going to spend around 4000 on a car I would not buy a MK1 which will rust and has only 25 bhp and 10mph at the top end more than an N/A which would cost around 1500 for a good one."

"My crime if you want to call it that was pointing out that this Super Edition had been quite rusty around the back end, I then said if it had been repaired properly it should last quite a few years, I also wished the seller good luck with the sale."

Now maybe it is just my opinion, but I think you quite overstated the rust issue, and on more than one occasion. To my knowledge it only had rust in the one area, and from what I have learned over the years that kind of rust can be rather easily dealt with and completely eradicated. You though imply that it is going to come back, regardless of the treatment, and be an issue for the buyer. You have no basis for making statements like that, especially as you seem to have no knowledge of the exact repairs undergone, who performed them, and to what extent they were made.

The real problem, however, is that I think you should have started a separate thread to discuss the issue if you felt that the seller was really trying to purposely fool someone, and I think that was hardly the case. Yes, in my opinion, I think it was more than a bit rude for you to have brought up some of the issues that you did in a thread in which you had no real personal interest. You obviously do not think much of SE's in general, while it is quite obvious that others do. Again, this is an issue that you really should have discussed elsewhere instead of intruding on someone else's thread.

coverco
8th September 2011, 06:15 AM
Now maybe it is just my opinion, but I think you quite overstated the rust issue, and on more than one occasion. To my knowledge it only had rust in the one area, and from what I have learned over the years that kind of rust can be rather easily dealt with and completely eradicated. You though imply that it is going to come back, regardless of the treatment, and be an issue for the buyer. You have no basis for making statements like that, especially as you seem to have no knowledge of the exact repairs undergone, who performed them, and to what extent they were made.

The real problem, however, is that I think you should have started a separate thread to discuss the issue if you felt that the seller was really trying to purposely fool someone, and I think that was hardly the case. Yes, in my opinion, I think it was more than a bit rude for you to have brought up some of the issues that you did in a thread in which you had no real personal interest. You obviously do not think much of SE's in general, while it is quite obvious that others do. Again, this is an issue that you really should have discussed elsewhere instead of intruding on someone else's thread.

All of the comments you highlight were made after the sale had been completed. I do know a bit about rust and the restoration of MK1's and I know unless the rusty metal was cut out and replaced then the rust will come back. It is of course possible to repair a car with filler and fibreglass and make it look like new, I am not suggesting this is what was done in this case but if you did not know a car had been repaired you would not be able to guess. If I know a car has had rust and been properly repaired then I would have no problem with it but I believe in letting people know the history of a car if I know it.

I think very little of SE's because they are just a supercharger with extras, if Toyota had made 100 pink playboy editions I would still think they were just a supercharger would you?

Fab4mr2
8th September 2011, 06:54 AM
I do know a bit about rust and the restoration of MK1's and I know unless the rusty metal was cut out and replaced then the rust will come back. If I know a car has had rust and been properly repaired then I would have no problem with it but I believe in letting people know the history of a car if I know it.

I think very little of SE's because they are just a supercharger with extras, if Toyota had made 100 pink playboy editions I would still think they were just a supercharger would you?
Sorry, but I completely disagree with you on the rust issue. As long as it can be sanded down to bare metal, and there is still plenty of base metal left I would have no problem with a sand/prime/paint repair. And rust will not magically come back when such a repair is done properly. And since you have apparently appointed yourself 'sale thread' moderator, it is only appropriate that some of us keep an eye on you, and post what we think is necessary to counter balance what are perceived as improper statements.

You can think whatever you want about SE's. You just really have no business making disparaging remarks about them in someone else's 'for sale' thread.

phaeton
8th September 2011, 08:12 AM
Perhaps someone who has cast aspersions on the originality of this car could actually list all of what they consider as non-original on it, instead of bandying the term about in a rather useless and vague method (and please be precise). And perhaps they could enlighten us as to what automotive collectors standards they are referring to when using the term non-original. I have viewed an awful lot of collector car auctions, and I do not recall how a little bit of bodywork, and a bit of respray would have disqualified a car from being claimed all original.

And please enlighten me as to how factory included equipment, such as a Momo steering wheel and shift knob are considered boy racer equipment. That statement alone discredits just about anything else its originator might possibly have to offer.

The statement "Completely original" is the salient point in my mind, if it is "Completely" then it should be as it came out of the factory, which after having bodywork done it is not, I am not saying that the work should not have been done, that work was not carried out to factory quality or better but the fact remains that it is not "Completely original". At this point please do not get childish & start talking about the fact the spark plugs have been changed, that different tyres have been fitted etc.etc. Had he stated "Original condition", "As it left the factory", "Pristine condition", "Showroom condition" but not "Completely original".

As to the "go faster" Momo stuff that is fitted, as one of the early pictures showed a standard steering wheel fitted, I incorrectly presumed these HAD been fitted retrospectively.

But a lot of this is semantics, as long as the buyer is happy with what he bought, he paid the price he was happy to pay, the seller got a price he was happy to accept then realistically it has nothing to do with anybody else other than those 2 people.

Alan...

Fab4mr2
8th September 2011, 08:39 AM
Again, no one can even point out what exact bodywork was done that they continue to insist makes it non-original.:D

And way to insult me, without me even replying to your post, with the "please do not get childish" bit. Talk about passive-aggressive.

Funny, I don't recall any pics with a non-SE steering wheel in it. One should at least have known what comes in an SE before making such comments.

tommundy
8th September 2011, 11:17 AM
Due to the poor image that this thread is portraying of the club I am closing it.
Good luck to the new owner of the car in question.
Regards,
Tom